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I automated my job application process

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Re: I automated my job application process

#111

Post by yuliyp »

nsxwolf wrote: post #101
pishpash wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Referrals and networking? When has submitting a resume to a portal ever been the way to find a job other than a cookie cutter one? Apply like a bot, work like a bot.

I haven’t seen the power of referrals for 10 years now. At work I can give you a “referral” by uploading your resume to our ATS. That’s it. It receives no more consideration than if you were to click Easy Apply on LinkedIn as far as I’m aware.

That type of referral indeed is mostly worthless (it might get you actually looked at by a human instead of rejected before that). Useful referrals are the kind where you go chat with your friend, figure out what they want in a job, then go find the hiring manager and tell them about this amazing ex-colleague who's a perfect fit for the role. That gets the candidate treated seriously. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but definitely gives the candidate a fair shot.

Re: I automated my job application process

#112

Post by sensanaty »

pishpash wrote: post #94
nsxwolf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s our alternative? It doesn’t seem to be “carefully consider and apply to a handful of highly relevant postings”. I don’t see the downsides for candidates to play the numbers game.

Referrals and networking? When has submitting a resume to a portal ever been the way to find a job other than a cookie cutter one? Apply like a bot, work like a bot.

Referrals in my company basically just guarantee that the resume isn't immediately thrown in the trash, doesn't really help anyone's odds otherwise. I suspect in most companies it's similar, if they even get that much of a benefit (unless you're upper management (aka nepotism) I guess)

Re: I automated my job application process

#113

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #27
nsxwolf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s our alternative? It doesn’t seem to be “carefully consider and apply to a handful of highly relevant postings”. I don’t see the downsides for candidates to play the numbers game.

Hiring and placement agencies that do prescreenings and provide CVs in standardized formats to employers and them getting paid according to how much salary the hire will get. win-win-win situation for every party, they got me my last two jobs in Vienna

We only ever used body shops when we were really desperate.

Re: I automated my job application process

#114

Post by divbzero »

This is pretty cool, though it seems more beneficial as a neat demo project than for its actual functionality. First, automated job application submission probably doesn’t endear you to hiring managers. And, moreover, you probably don’t want to optimize your life for job hunting in the same way that you probably don’t want to optimize your life for being very good at first dates. Life is more fulfilling if you can find what you want and keep it for the long run.

Re: I automated my job application process

#115

Post by andylynch »

programjames wrote: post #104
ghaff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all ends up being a nasty feedback loop. (Especially) junior people in a somewhat tough market for tech end up spamming resumes so companies respond with pretty crappy algorithmic filters which basically somewhat randomly toss most of the resumes into the bit bucket. Rinse and repeat. But per downthread comment, applicants don't care if their actions make things worse for the market as a whole. And it's not clear…

There's actually a solution around this: name and shame! Just like bad companies get called out on GlassDoor, companies should create a reputation system for prospective employees (e.g. a professional credit score). This already exists for potential tenants, so I don't really understand why it doesn't exist for potential employees given they occur at about the same frequency and have a similar amount of money trading…

You’re talking about blacklists.

They are not a new idea, in fact they are well known, but also prohibited by law in many places because of their widespread abuse.

There’s also a more general idea in competition law that companies shoul, well, compete their fields, and allowing cartel-like behaviour on the labour market is contradictory to this.

Re: I automated my job application process

#116

Post by CactusOnFire »

programjames wrote: post #104
ghaff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all ends up being a nasty feedback loop. (Especially) junior people in a somewhat tough market for tech end up spamming resumes so companies respond with pretty crappy algorithmic filters which basically somewhat randomly toss most of the resumes into the bit bucket. Rinse and repeat. But per downthread comment, applicants don't care if their actions make things worse for the market as a whole. And it's not clear…

There's actually a solution around this: name and shame! Just like bad companies get called out on GlassDoor, companies should create a reputation system for prospective employees (e.g. a professional credit score). This already exists for potential tenants, so I don't really understand why it doesn't exist for potential employees given they occur at about the same frequency and have a similar amount of money trading…

Just like how many companies have methods available to them to remove bad glassdoor reviews (or make fake 5-star reviews), this system is even more rife for abuse.

Re: I automated my job application process

#117

Post by pixelsort »

codegeek wrote: post #40
nsxwolf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s our alternative? It doesn’t seem to be “carefully consider and apply to a handful of highly relevant postings”. I don’t see the downsides for candidates to play the numbers game.

The downside is that if all candidates are thinking like you, you are now hoping that the hiring team can sort through 100s of garbage Resumes to may be find you who may be a good fit. Your odds of being called for Round 1 is now much lower due to all that noise. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. Your probability of being called for Round 1 just went down significantly and this hurts you.

The hiring teams are employed. If they aren't in a position to fix the dynamics then nobody can. HR enjoys a vaulted position under which their suffering KPIs allow them to point their fingers at the market and shrug the blame from their shoulders . It isn't like they are going to suddenly band together and boycott AI. We've all had our sip from the fountain of eternal laziness and now we all want more.

Re: I automated my job application process

#118

Post by citiguy »

lostlogin wrote: post #80
cute_boi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that many processes, from interviews to real work, are increasingly manipulated. I've noticed a pattern with candidates employed by certain consulting companies, especially in Texas and New Jersey. These companies often recruit low-cost labor from India, craft fake resumes, and submit them to platforms like LinkedIn. During interviews, candidates use tools like HDMI dual-screen setups, ChatGPT, Otter AI, or…

What’s the outsourced work from India like? Anything worth having?

I've done this. It can be hit or miss. Get a great team with a strong lead and you'll love them. Unfortunately there's quite a bit of opportunity over there so once you've trained them up, they're always looking for their next (better paying) gig with their new skills. It's rare if folks last past a year on your team.

Re: I automated my job application process

#119

Post by sensanaty »

codegeek wrote: post #44
trentnix wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Please don't flood us with auto-resumes" ... "Click here to submit to having your resume processed by a bot that will do all the filtering for us" This might not be you and your company, but it seems to be most of them.

Agreed. Both sides are bad. Most of these "bots" are useless and do a terrible job. I have seen that side as well. Many years ago, I was applying at IBM (don't ask) for a role and the recruiter told me that the online portal will reject me anyway. But not to worry because he knows what buttons to click to get me the interview because I was a really good fit.

> IBM (don't ask)

Lol I dipped out of further consideration once they sent me what the interview process was gonna be like. Like 6 rounds, whiteboard coding, leetcode crap, "behavioral" interviews, a talk with some pencil pushers and some extra stuff. I don't know how desperate you have to be to put up with that.

Re: I automated my job application process

#120

Post by programjames »

ghaff wrote: post #107
programjames wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a solution around this: name and shame! Just like bad companies get called out on GlassDoor, companies should create a reputation system for prospective employees (e.g. a professional credit score). This already exists for potential tenants, so I don't really understand why it doesn't exist for potential employees given they occur at about the same frequency and have a similar amount of money trading…

Applicants have long sprayed and prayed even when it involved sending physical letters. Some of the current systems have decreased the effort per company applied-to but, for entry-level employees, it was rarely a carefully-targeted thing for new professionals. It was always a numbers game to some degree although admittedly the scale and tools involved have changed.

The smaller scale in the past made it so managers either knew (at least by reputation) the person submitting the resume, or it was not too expensive to find out. Nowadays, jobs are getting 100x as many applications, most of which are far lower in quality.

University admissions has followed a similar trend, going from 5–10 being "spray and pray" twenty years ago to 20–30 applications nowadays. However, it didn't increase as much because (1) each application costs money, and (2) most universities expect a cover letter. It still costs quite a bit to filter the applicants, but the fee helps pay for that.

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