Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#151

Post by dr_kretyn » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #36

matwood wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your train leaves at 0700 you can’t plan to get there at 06:59 True, but 6:50 is plenty early enough depending on if you know the station and the size. Getting to and from the stations are a wash because it's not like the airport drops you at the door either. Though, many EU cities have the train station near the city center which makes it easier for people to get to than the airport.

Unless you don't happen to live within the city center. Train stations frequently have zero long term parking, while airport frequently have cheap or even free long term parking. If you need to take the train where I live, then you're better of driving to the airport and park there. Then take a train or bus to the city center and the train station. I did like to take the train more often, but travel times are just to…

Sounds like you're living in an area where the parking at the airport is subsidized because other transportation options are suboptimal, likely because the airport is prioritized. I lived in many places in the EU and North America, and nowhere airport parking was cheap. Unless going for a day or two, it's cheaper to take a taxi both ways.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#152

Post by pembrook » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:00 PM UTC

yndoendo wrote: post #113

tzury wrote: post #80

About 20 years ago, I visited most of Europe’s major cities over the course of a two-month trip, traveling primarily by night train. Each overnight ride saved me the cost of a hostel or guesthouse, and I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations. There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for…

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

This is a false conspiracy narrative that belongs on Reddit in the r/fuckcars filter bubble.

Sure, the automotive industry stood to benefit from the decline of rail travel in the US. But they didn’t really need to do anything for that to happen on its own. Reality is far less interesting than that. Turns out when you have tons of fertile land, even pre-industrialization your population tends to spread out a bit (the vast majority of Americans used to be farmers). Today the US has 3-5X less population density than any country with high speed rail. Autos saw massive success in the US due to this fact, and their prevalence reduced the demand for rail travel as a side effect, it wasn’t some top down evil conspiracy.

It’s fun to blame everything on evil big business or evil big government, but it’s also important to look at the first principles and base properties of the issue at hand first.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#153

Post by thatcat » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:02 PM UTC

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #145

thatcat wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

[flagged]

A ton of new destinations? wow what an amazing improvement! Is it possible that was just inevitable network effect and had nothing to do with intentional investments in R/D?

It's almost as if the development of technology and politics are interrelated. Half the cost of building US airports were subsidized by the government when they added them.

Path of development and real estate prices are related to accessibility. Most of the US is not accessible, there are an equal number of paved and unpaved roads in miles. Consider receiving mail in a rural area where it's going to be 3-5 days for an amazon prime package and the closest store is 30+ miles. If you randomly sample locations in the US you'll find that is actually really common, it's just not experienced by many people. Rail networks aren't about going on vacation, it's about developing real national infrastructure that creates efficiencies that boost multiple parts of the economy.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#154

Post by gambiting » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:02 PM UTC

lotsoweiners wrote: post #130

yndoendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

I’m not sure about that. I’d imagine that trains are going to have the worst of both worlds. They will take a long time (closer to amount of time to drive to destination). They also will have costs approaching that of a flight. To me a train trip makes sense if you enjoy trains and feel that the travel itself is part of the reward.

Have you ever taken any trains in Europe? I cannot think of any route in any country where I've lived in Europe where driving would be even remotely close to taking the train, and in some cases it's faster than flying. Newcastle to London is 2h40m by train, about 5 hours of driving. Flight is 40 minutes but you're nowhere near the city centre, so once you take into account going through security plus necessary transfer times it's much longer. Brussels to Paris is an hour and a half on the train, driving is at least double that. Krakow to Warsaw is just over 2 hours, the drive is at least 3 hours and that's to the outskirts not city centre to city centre.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#155

Post by throw5959 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:05 PM UTC

sebtron wrote: post #129

likeabatterycar wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for several hours midway so passengers would arrive at around 7:30 a.m. well-rested. That trip is 1h 15m by air with 30 flights a day each way. That train doesn't exist anymore because it's impractical and people's time is valuable. We stopped taking Conestoga wagons from New York to California for the sam…

That was an example of a train going slower on purpose to let people sleep a full night. A regular high-spees train could do that trip in 2-3 hours, beating a 1:15 flight in convenience by a huge margin.

Since we're citing European trains, let's also cite European airports - I can arrive to the airport for an EU flight 20 minutes before take off and still have plenty of time to get everything sorted out. And I'm out of the airport within 15 minutes after landing - usually stepping right into a subway or something. I don't think it's such a huge margin if you fix your airports, which is going to be many orders of magnitude cheaper than building high speed rail from everywhere to everywhere.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#156

Post by rebolek » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:07 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #152

yndoendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

This is a false conspiracy narrative that belongs on Reddit in the r/fuckcars filter bubble. Sure, the automotive industry stood to benefit from the decline of rail travel in the US. But they didn’t really need to do anything for that to happen on its own. Reality is far less interesting than that. Turns out when you have tons of fertile land, even pre-industrialization your population tends to spread out a bit (the…

While you're right about average density, there are some spots with much higher density population that could certainly benefit from high speed train.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#157

Post by airstrike » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

Beijinger wrote: post #139

tzury wrote: post #80

About 20 years ago, I visited most of Europe’s major cities over the course of a two-month trip, traveling primarily by night train. Each overnight ride saved me the cost of a hostel or guesthouse, and I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations. There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for…

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

20 years ago?

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#158

Post by caseyy » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

Beijinger wrote: post #139

tzury wrote: post #80

About 20 years ago, I visited most of Europe’s major cities over the course of a two-month trip, traveling primarily by night train. Each overnight ride saved me the cost of a hostel or guesthouse, and I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations. There used to be a similar service between Toronto and Montreal (both directions), where the train would pause for…

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#159

Post by thatcat » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:11 PM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #137

thatcat wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

[flagged]

The proof is in the profits that result from a favorable and otherwise illogical set of choices. Who even cares about the details? The oil and related industries are notoriously corrupt, introducing lead into gas knowing the toxic effects among other policy choices aimed at reducing alternatives to cars such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

Where's the logical argument against high speed rail that is based on physical limitations of reality and not simply uh its infeasible because policy?

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#160

Post by Aachen » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 7:12 PM UTC

throwaway20241 wrote: post #88

sloowm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are things that can be done about people jumping in front of trains. Making sure the rails are not accessible with fences around them. Putting camera's at spots where people can get past the fences. In high risk stations you can put walls and gates in that only open when a train can be boarded. It's all just a lack of investment. If the budget for rail and other infrastructure matched the budget for car infrast…

(throwaway for obvious reasons) CW: suicide Coming from someone who has spent considerable time thinking about and planning suicide by train: lol no Unless you put up walls higher than the highest ladders available (so at least 5m I guess) or completely enlose every train track with a roof and everything, people will climb over things. There's either no space for large fenced areas around tracks (pretty much everywhe…

(Without derailing the topic, I hope you are doing better now! You sound level headed and like someone we want in this world or on our jobs or in our friend groups.)

I mostly figured the same as what you said (way too much infrastructure needed to mostly eliminate the possibility), though if you say most suicides are impulse decisions, wouldn't preventative infrastructure in a few key spots be sufficient to shave, idk, 10+% off the number of suicides by train?