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I automated my job application process

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Re: I automated my job application process

#61

Post by voidr »

codegeek wrote: post #12

Nice. But as a hiring manager, this is the last thing we want. Flooded with auto submitted Resumes. I posted a job recently and got 100+ resumes in 2 days and 99% were not even remotely close to being a good fit. I struggled to sort through so many Resumes to find someone worth interviewing. The problem is that with so much noise, good candidates may get ignored or rejected by mistake. And the cycle continues. I get…

Hiring agents have been spamming potential job seekers for years with garbage and then came up with the abomination known as ATS, which makes it very difficult to argue that job seekers should not use automation.

Either the market needs to come up with a good solution that encourages good behavior from both sides or the governments can step in and start regulating.

Re: I automated my job application process

#62

Post by hansvm »

the_arun wrote: post #10

Is cover letter important? Do hiring managers/recruiters read those?

I have no clue in general. When I go through applications, I go through all the material and anything else I can find about the candidate, and cover letters are sometimes helpful. Put yourself in my shoes:

- If the cover letter is a rehash of your resume, it's a waste of your time and mine. It certainly isn't helpful to your application, and if I have too many well-qualified applicants then it might be harmful.

- Poorly written cover letters suggest that the applicant doesn't care much about this specific opportunity, it's some sort of AI/oversees/... scam, or the applicant can't write well. They're very helpful for me when there are already other data points suggesting identity theft or similar automation (nail-in-the-coffin material). Otherwise, they're not necessarily a negative, but it's rarely advantageous to advertise a lack of some skill, and it does disqualify applicants from some roles.

- Some cover letters are especially compelling. Suppose your resume just has you as a pizza delivery driver, but your cover letter goes over the app you wrote and the data science behind it to optimize your hourly earnings. Suppose your work history is in web tech, but you're actually better at low-level optimizations and are applying here because you think that skill set is a good fit. I prefer varied backgrounds anyway, so you'll probably get some form of screening interview unless there's enough other evidence that you aren't qualified (e.g., junior experience for a senior role) -- I try to bias toward giving everyone a chance while not wasting too much of anyone's time, and I'm fine having a busier calendar to make that happen.

None of that helps you get the job though; it helps you get an interview. If your experience is that you're well qualified and usually land the job once you get into an interview, and if your cover letter has some information your resume lacks, you should definitely add one. If you normally struggle through the interview process, it'd be surprising for you to have an honest cover letter which would help you land the job in the first place, so I probably wouldn't bother.

Re: I automated my job application process

#63

Post by narnarpapadaddy »

imnotjames wrote: post #29
zwnow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You are the reason people go for these kinda solutions. Hiring process is complete bs.

What do you suggest?

If one is not currently employed as an engineer?

Frankly, seriously consider a career change. The ladder has been pulled up for entry-level positions due to AI, interest-rates, etc. This will come back and bite us as an industry, but it’ll be 10 years from now and most people can’t wait that long.

I can’t speak for everyone, but 3000+ applicants for a single opening is typical at my org. The odds of any given individual getting in are essentially zero. Referrals get priority over everyone else, even candidates that are on-paper better qualified.

It sucks for everyone involved, especially for job hunters. But from the hiring side, truthfully, there’s no end in sight.

Re: I automated my job application process

#64

Post by nsxwolf »

codegeek wrote: post #40
nsxwolf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s our alternative? It doesn’t seem to be “carefully consider and apply to a handful of highly relevant postings”. I don’t see the downsides for candidates to play the numbers game.

The downside is that if all candidates are thinking like you, you are now hoping that the hiring team can sort through 100s of garbage Resumes to may be find you who may be a good fit. Your odds of being called for Round 1 is now much lower due to all that noise. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. Your probability of being called for Round 1 just went down significantly and this hurts you.

I would have thought the one thing these ATS systems could do by now is filter the obvious garbage resumes.

Re: I automated my job application process

#65

Post by voisin »

codegeek wrote: post #12

Nice. But as a hiring manager, this is the last thing we want. Flooded with auto submitted Resumes. I posted a job recently and got 100+ resumes in 2 days and 99% were not even remotely close to being a good fit. I struggled to sort through so many Resumes to find someone worth interviewing. The problem is that with so much noise, good candidates may get ignored or rejected by mistake. And the cycle continues. I get…

I haven’t hired in years but I am surprised there aren’t AI agents that can intelligently rate the compatibility of resumes to your job posting

Re: I automated my job application process

#66

Post by drillsteps5 »

In the middle of fruitless multi-month job search, I manually view LinkedIn/indeed job sites daily and look for new positions, going through requirements, making sure I have the skills and experience (also helps with understanding if I need to upskill in certain areas), then look up the company, the industry it's in, etc. By the time I'm ready to apply to the position I know I'm interested in and a good fit for, there's a few hundred applications already (LinkedIn shows the count to the applicants). I'm like, how is this possible, it's only been 3 days?..

Well, that's how.

Re: I automated my job application process

#67

Post by drillsteps5 »

_blk wrote: post #37
pmarreck wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, I am flooded with recruiter "opportunities" that are nowhere near my capabilities. There's noise all around happening. Maybe the problem is that spamming people is free.

Absolutely. I mean I remember 20y ago when someone's solution to spam was paying a small fee. Not what you want, but it's gotta be somewhere there. There has to be a cost to it, but it probably shouldn't be directly monetary. Submission delay might work.

Requiring applicants to pay a fee will mean that the positions that I have to apply for that either do not exist, or are opened "just in case", or are market research, or the COA positions to push internal candidates, or any one of countless similar positions, will require me to pay out of pocket. Not exactly fair from my perspective.

Re: I automated my job application process

#68

Post by the_snooze »

codegeek wrote: post #12

Nice. But as a hiring manager, this is the last thing we want. Flooded with auto submitted Resumes. I posted a job recently and got 100+ resumes in 2 days and 99% were not even remotely close to being a good fit. I struggled to sort through so many Resumes to find someone worth interviewing. The problem is that with so much noise, good candidates may get ignored or rejected by mistake. And the cycle continues. I get…

As a hiring manager, I've chosen to opt out of this system altogether. Instead of public postings, I just poll my network and post job announcements in private channels in my professional community. Much higher signal-to-noise ratio.

Re: I automated my job application process

#70

Post by Etheryte »

drillsteps5 wrote: post #67
_blk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I mean I remember 20y ago when someone's solution to spam was paying a small fee. Not what you want, but it's gotta be somewhere there. There has to be a cost to it, but it probably shouldn't be directly monetary. Submission delay might work.

Requiring applicants to pay a fee will mean that the positions that I have to apply for that either do not exist, or are opened "just in case", or are market research, or the COA positions to push internal candidates, or any one of countless similar positions, will require me to pay out of pocket. Not exactly fair from my perspective.

Agreed, while paying to reduce spam may work in other contexts, in this setting the incentives don't align. Imagine if Linkedin got paid every time you applied for a listing, the pile of ghost jobs would be practically infinite.
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