Should more of us be moving to live near friends? • Hacker News Board

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#151

Post by aylmao » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 4:50 AM UTC

more_corn wrote: post #120

dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

This isn’t restricted to US culture. Every culture on earth sees a draw from the small towns and villages to the city. Opportunities, culture, better pay, access to education. Japanese villages are empty. Spain, Italy the same. I’m in Thailand and my guide said exactly the same thing yesterday. There’s also a draw away from the city as people have kids. They want a bit more quiet. Good schools safe environment. The m…

> Every culture on earth sees a draw from the small towns and villages to the city.

What you're describing is true, but also different from what the original comment is talking about. There is a global trend to urbanization, yes. The original comment isn't talking about moving from rural to urban; what they say applies to moving from one city to another.

Moreover, at an individual scale, moving for better opportunities doesn't mean one has to leave family and friends. For example, my grandma: she was very poor, and moved a few times different cities looking for a better life. This meant moving with her whole family, and/or moving where other family was. After she married my grandpa, he got job opportunities in both Guadalajara and Mexico City. I'm sure they could've done better in Mexico City, since it's the capital, but they chose Guadalajara due to proximity to family. Her mom eventually moved to Guadalajara too.

Another, more recent example from my family: my uncle. He had the opportunity to move for a very good job, but didn't take it since it was far from family. My brother moved cities for college, but specifically to one where he would be close to family.

One thing is moving wherever it takes for the sake of going to a specific school, working at a specific job, living in a specific dream home or dream city. That is very American. Another one is still looking for opportunities, but framing everything in terms of your family and friends; ie, what's the best job, school, home I can find close to my family? That's much more Latin American and much less common, in my experience, in the USA.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#152

Post by astrange » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:02 AM UTC

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #148

pnw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High density living in a downtown area is inversely correlated with having a family across a wide selection of different countries though. The highest density countries like Korea and Japan have some of the lowest fertility rates. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34914431/

> The highest density countries like Korea and Japan have some of the lowest fertility rates. I'm going to doubt that's because of density. That's entirely because of toxic aspects of the cultures (especially work and education culture) that make it near impossible to have and raise a child for the first few years of their life.

Generally speaking, birth rate declines happen because people have more things to do than have children. That's why all rich countries experience them and noone has been able to reverse them. (Japan actually has slightly reversed theirs. Korea hasn't because Korean men are awful misogynists no women want to associate with.)

There are high density countries with high birth rates though; they're either very religious (Israel) or very poor (Africa).

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#153

Post by imrehg » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:04 AM UTC

wenc wrote: post #6

I would love to, but I come from a place where intellectual pursuits are not valued, so I would lose out on that front if I moved back. I’m the type who needs to always be learning. So I would always need to be in a big city. Alain Bertaud, the urbanist, recently said, “the big contribution of cities is randomness.” And he continues: “You don't know what to expect. You don't know who you will meet. And, it's precisel…

Where's that Alain Bertaud quote from? I'd be interested in listening/reading more about his stuff.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#154

Post by flocciput » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:05 AM UTC

Of course the LiveNearFriends website is only for people in the fucking Bay Area and lists houses that are millions of dollars.

I would love to live near friends. I've been trying to find a place cheap enough and close enough to an area with plentiful jobs. But my friends are not all software engineers, and most are far from making that kind of money (or being able to work from home anywhere in the country). It's so fucking hard. And such a slap in the face to see a site that should make it easier, actually only intended to help people for whom that goal is already in reach.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#155

Post by User23 » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:09 AM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #149

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are kind of missing the point. You can have a small rural town where the people in the town generally all live in/around the town but between that town and the next town over might be 1-2 hours. In that type of small town you still have quick access to your necessities and you can walk to your neighbors' houses but once you get out of the bounds of your small town it might be 30 minutes before you see the next bu…

You are kind of missing the point. You can live in a small town that might be 1-2 hours separated by the next town and still not be "rural". You're still living an urban life, not a rural life. It's not like you need your town to be >1M people for it to be "urban". There's small town urban, there's a big city urban, and there's rural. Do you actually live in a place statistically considered urban or rural? If you hav…

> If you have multiple chain restaurants in your town, you're almost assuredly not "rural".

By this standard, there are no rural communities east of the Mississippi. Is that congruent with what you intend to say?

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#156

Post by wielebny » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:13 AM UTC

williamtrask wrote: post #47

wenc wrote: post #6

I would love to, but I come from a place where intellectual pursuits are not valued, so I would lose out on that front if I moved back. I’m the type who needs to always be learning. So I would always need to be in a big city. Alain Bertaud, the urbanist, recently said, “the big contribution of cities is randomness.” And he continues: “You don't know what to expect. You don't know who you will meet. And, it's precisel…

Having lived in both rural and urban settings, I'm not sure the isolation you describe would be as correlated as you think. People in rural areas still hang out with one another (and even... alot) and people in cities still isolate themselves. To follow that line further, I'd argue that the fact that rural living gives you less choice in company increases the degree to which you invest in the relationships that happe…

> People in rural areas still hang out with one another (and even... alot)

Aren't those like really dangerous?

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#157

Post by seizethecheese » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:13 AM UTC

dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

80% of Americans live near where they were born. This isn’t the root cause of estrangement.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#158

Post by somenameforme » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:20 AM UTC

wenc wrote: post #6

I would love to, but I come from a place where intellectual pursuits are not valued, so I would lose out on that front if I moved back. I’m the type who needs to always be learning. So I would always need to be in a big city. Alain Bertaud, the urbanist, recently said, “the big contribution of cities is randomness.” And he continues: “You don't know what to expect. You don't know who you will meet. And, it's precisel…

Your experience in rural areas differs quite extremely from those I have had. In particular living in rural areas basically forces one to have hobbies. Even in the most rural areas of areas I found people whose interests included astronomy, plenty of guys into computing stuff, radio/ham culture, taxonomy, and so on endlessly. Incidentally the guy who was huge into astronomy, with an educational background in it on top, was also a biker who was built like a tank and tatted from (nearly) head to toe. Of course there were also plenty of people whose hobby was 'drink self into stupor and watch TV' but they were not the rule.

It's also way easier to meet people in rural areas because you see the same people regularly, and a friendly chat at the local convenience mart is pretty normal, as opposed to the instinct you get in cities where if somebody is actively seeking you out to chat, then he's probably either a weirdo or looking to scam you or, equivalently, sell you something. The same instinct that makes it difficult for you to approach people to chat.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#159

Post by iamricks » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

dlisboa wrote: post #71

Coming from a Latin American the idea of re-starting your life across the country for college and then again for work (multiple times sometimes) while away from family and friends is very foreign. A lot of the conversation around modern American youth feeling isolated, lacking socialization and not building strong relationships seems that stem from this drive. Another thing that’s really weird and related is another…

I am Cuban and from Miami. The culture here is very similar where people will sacrifice everything in order to stay living close to family and "home". Here it stems a lot from the financial anxiety passed down from our parents and a culture where you relied a lot on your entire family. I think it really holds a lot of people back.

Re: Should more of us be moving to live near friends?

#160

Post by lolinder » Sat, Dec 28, 2024, 5:39 AM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #149

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are kind of missing the point. You can have a small rural town where the people in the town generally all live in/around the town but between that town and the next town over might be 1-2 hours. In that type of small town you still have quick access to your necessities and you can walk to your neighbors' houses but once you get out of the bounds of your small town it might be 30 minutes before you see the next bu…

You are kind of missing the point. You can live in a small town that might be 1-2 hours separated by the next town and still not be "rural". You're still living an urban life, not a rural life. It's not like you need your town to be >1M people for it to be "urban". There's small town urban, there's a big city urban, and there's rural. Do you actually live in a place statistically considered urban or rural? If you hav…

You're being needlessly pedantic. The top-level comment is saying that they could only live in a big city for {reasons}—it's very very clear that a small town of 5000 doesn't count for them. In that context, the commenter that started this subthread is clearly using "rural" to describe everything that isn't in a big city—places where there are hour-sized gaps between small towns count as rural when it's used to distinguish from "big city".

Trying to insist on a different dividing line between categories is not useful in this context where OP was already clear that they believe a small town doesn't work for them.