Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

orkohunter.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 473 posts

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#41

Post by SecretDreams »

kubb wrote: post #13

It’s quite treacherous to identify yourself with labels: introvert, extrovert, conscientious, conservative, liberal, empathetic, neurodivergent, etc. The act of putting a name on some traits that you have can seem liberating: I finally know what I am, and why I’m different from others, and that’s fine. On the flipside, once you commit to a label, you lock yourself inside it, and instead of describing, it begins shapi…

Absolutely! The labels some may seek to feel a deeper sense of community and understanding end up becoming shackles.

People don't need to just be one thing. We are fluid. And can and should have opinions and stances that wane over time.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#42

Post by SecretDreams »

knorker wrote: post #3

> What they don’t realize is - everyone is an introvert and everyone is an extrovert. Citation needed. > I looked into his eyes and saw the disgust for everyone in the room. That's not how human interaction or theory of mind works. This article is "not even wrong". It's just subjective bullshit (in the technical definition of the word bullshit). It's probably the most ill informed post I've ever seen on the front pag…

> It's probably the most ill informed post I've ever seen on the front page of HN.

Ever seen so far

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#43

Post by jmyeet »

Articles like this are (IMHO) ableist and come from an extremely neurotypical perspective. "Just practice social skills" to me is like teling depressed people "just go outside and touch grass".

There's not a single mention of ADHD or autism in here. My own understanding of this has evolved over the years.

The first stage is to understand introversion / extroversion as simply to not like / like socializing, people, large groups or whatever. This is a shallow and pretty inaccurate understanding, one many people such as myself chafe against. I consider myself an introvert but like certain social activities so these labels never seem to quite fit.

The next stage is the "social battery" understanding of introversion / extroversion. That is, social activities will either drain or charge your "social battery".

After this you start to ask questions like "why does X drain my social battery?" and "what does draining a social battery really mean?" and you start to realize you're still describing symptoms, not causes.

The key insight is that something drains your social battery because you're masking [1]. So-called extroverts don't need to mask. So-called introverts do.

Yes, you can get better at following social norms and develop coping strategies for large groups, socializing with strangers, etc but all you're really doing is getting better at masking. That can be useful because it can change how other people respond to you but it's a bit like telling a depressed person to "just smile".

[1]: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behavio...

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#44

Post by rors »

I feel like a lot of these debates boil down dealing with discomfort. We seem to be creating a society where everyone feels they have the right to not feeling stressed and uncomfortable. The danger to never feeling challenged is that you don't grow. You get stuck in a rut and everyone passes you by.

Part of dealing with discomfort is learning what your limits are. No one should put themselves in a situation with you have a breakdown. I find that a small amount of stress in my life is good and results in growth. But a huge amount is overwhelming which leads to burnout.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#46

Post by niam »

I mostly don't see the point in these terms anymore. They were presumably created to categorize people but suck at it because nobody agrees where the boundaries of the category are, and the resolution on the term is so low for how many domains of personality it touches.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#47

Post by happytoexplain »

HPsquared wrote: post #33

For me the "energy gain" / "energy drain" question depends MASSIVELY on who I happen to be spending time with. So much so that recently I'm doubting if I even am an introvert. With the right people it's all good.

I've always assumed people are largely the same, socially. I.e. we enjoy being with people we mesh with, and don't enjoy being with people we don't mesh with. The thing is, you can like people you don't mesh with. You might not have a single bad thing to say of a person, yet still have no interest in hanging out with them.

And then, surprise, being forced to do things you don't enjoy is draining. Especially when it involves long periods of politely choosing your words and facial expressions to pretend you're not bored/frustrated.

The only thing that makes an "introvert" is when the genre of person they mesh with happens to be more numerically rare. There is a ton of variety in humans. It doesn't mean anything significant that your "group" is small.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#48

Post by knorker »

impoppy wrote: post #30
creaktive wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider this: you can’t read facial expressions, nor the tone of the voice. Moreover, most people you interact with misinterpret your face/voice, assuming you’re joking when you’re dead serious (and vice versa). So, you come up with strategies to cope with your deficiencies. Basically, playbooks of what to say if you hear/see so and so, filling the gaps in your sensorium. What’s handled by an “autopilot” for most, i…

This was the best explanation. I forgot I used to be this awkward as well for many years and the autopilot/manual analogy is just great. I did get much better at this though through lots of practice and patiently wasting my mental energy and having many awkward interactions, now it’s all just natural to me. I’ll be called an ableist and downvoted, however, I don’t really understand what’s stopping others from sufferi…

> This was the best explanation.

It's the only one you choose to believe.

> I don’t really understand what’s stopping others from suffering through discomfort to get used to it and not see it as discomfort anymore

I wouldn't call it ableist to assume that everybody is just like you. People are different. You wouldn't say "if only everyone suffered through reading this physics book, they'd surely understand the glory of physics, and become physicists".

Or "if only someone would just read my religion's book, then obviously they'd instantly become a devout follower of my particular god?".

It all seems profoundly ignorant, naive, lacking both empathy and theory of mind.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#49

Post by michaelcampbell »

fnord77 wrote: post #31
vouaobrasil wrote: post #9

One thing to me is fairly obvious: people who are introverts can be social, but only for limited amounts of time. For example, I like talking a lot, but I can only do it for limited amounts of time. Maybe only a few hours a week. If I'm pushed past that point, I just don't want to chat any more. It's like I'm full of food, but with socialization. After that I find socialization immensely distasteful and irritating. T…

> people who are introverts can be social not if they have social anxiety or are not NT > but only for limited amounts of time. but yes, this is true. And it is not something you can build up like a muscle or long distance running. In fact I think trying to build up the amount of time you socialize actually diminishes it

Everything is true except for the edge cases where it's not; pointing this out I think is unnecessary.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#50

Post by Jensson »

jghn wrote: post #36
HPsquared wrote: post #33

For me the "energy gain" / "energy drain" question depends MASSIVELY on who I happen to be spending time with. So much so that recently I'm doubting if I even am an introvert. With the right people it's all good.

This is me as well. For me it's not "socializing = energy drain" or the opposite. It's more about situations. In most situations I find talking with people, being in crowds, etc to be draining. But plop me into what is a relatively small list of "right circumstances" and it's the exact opposite.

> In most situations I find talking with people, being in crowds, etc to be draining

Then you are an introvert. They are talking about most situations, if there are some cliques you feel comfortable around then you are still an introvert.

Extroverts has a small set of situations where they get drained instead. It isn't like anyone loves all human contact, its just some have an issue with most contact and others like it most of the time.

Post reply on HN