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The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

nytimes.com

181–190 of 320 posts

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#181
post #104
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So there were always people around. There were always women willing to sleep with him. But they were there for the money and he couldn't delude himself into thinking otherwise." For some reason people seem to think that someone wanting to be around because of a person's fame or money is less pure than other reasons because it's not real. Generally when people want to be around someone it's because they give them som…

>For some reason people seem to think that someone wanting to be around because of a person's fame or money is less pure than other reasons because it's not real. There's a big difference between a person's intrinsic properties and his money. You like your friends; you like the rich guy's money. And when you're around someone for his money you're playing a part. It's a job. You're not going to tell him what you reall…

Here's the thing though.... If there was more of a gift economy in these cases, the intrinsic properties would be something like generosity, fairness, and honor. You have a lot of money and have a reputation for these things, who is to say that isn't more real?

The problem though is form. I am generous with my good fortune to you. What are you doing for me in return? It used to be that a gift demanded reciprocity (as would injury or misbehavior), and to be forgiven for not doing so was a bad thing and an insult to one's honor. Then Christianity came and we all got screwed over by this obligation to forgive.

Interestingly we know from anthropology that money came about as a way to quantify debt, not the other way around. So perhaps this is only less real today because of how we account for our possessions and how we relate to our money, not because of any intrinsic issue with a relationship based on disparity of this sort.

Interestingly Cicero brings up a similar point in his work on friendship. At a time where Roman society was very stratified and friendships were supposed to be between economic equals, he suggested that the best friendships would be made with people below one's social status, for the specific reason that they would be more loyal. Friendships in Rome were all about a gift economy (as they still are in many parts of the world today. I have a friend who studied with Edgar Polome for his PhD and said Polome used to use India as an example if this. He'd get a gift-- maybe a new wallet or something-- from someone one year and a request for help getting a job or a car or something else a few years later. And when he'd turn them down they'd be unhappy because it was not fulfilling his obligation for having accepted the gift. This is true all over Asia as my wife always reminds me never to accept a gift from someone unless I know what they want in return.)

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#182
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your description with how a lot of people feel, myself included, especially the part about meetups. However, 'you' don't have put up with grownupness and dinners and clean houses and fancy meals if you don't want to. If you like the grownupness then by all means get into it, but you make it sound like it is a required pain ... If you don't like it find friends that also don't like it.

I think the issue is that before you know enough about the other person you have a lot more chance to ruin the friendship with the cheap meal in front of the TV than the well planned and prepared one.

This is an interesting point, but I wonder if it is an opportunity. If everyone expects a college-style beer-and-pizza party, why not? Maybe something you can do with some existing friends first, and then start inviting new people over? Something like "Hey there's this crazy thing some of my friends and I do. Want to come to the next one?"

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#183
post #65

1. It helps to volunteer regularly for a non-profit cause that you believe in, or at least approve of. You likely will get to know some "nice" people; once you establish that you're actually committed to whatever the cause is, and not just on the prowl, then you can establish lifelong bonds. 2. It also helps to be cheerfully unembarrassed about taking the lead in organizing groups to do stuff. People are often secret…

It's funny that you felt you had to couch the church thing this way. There are more "religious" people on HN than you'd think, but they're mostly closeted. Unlike the real world, where concerns about "a war on Christianity" are entirely hysterical, there is a real intolerance towards it here. Despite incredible advances in connectivity over the last 20 years, I think you'd have a hard time finding thinkers who believ…

Actually religious groups can be great. I am a Neopagan, formally polythistic with pantheistic undertones, and open generally to the ideas of pantheism, autotheism (is this a form of atheism?), and agnosticism.

However the nice thing about escaping the circle of Christianity and affected religions (Orthodox Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, and spinoffs of these), is that religion ceases to be about what you believe (or more cynically what you say you believe) and rather about ritual, tradition, and what you understand. I have religious students who are atypical atheists, and this is just fine. I don't care what opinions they have, just that they make their own sense out of (and find meaning in) the tradition. You can't do that by simply copying the opinions of someone else....

Many of my deepest friends arise from my religious work. These are often long-term very stable friendships brought about through respect for eachother's intellect and character. And many of those friendships I made as adults. There is little greater friendship that those who mutually inspire eachother.

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always true either. I spent some time in the military in South Africa during the bush war. I can without a doubt say that I've never felt closer to another male as I did then. However, 23 years later and I only have contact details for one of the 8, and even though he and I are friends on Facebook we never exchange more than the annual "happy birthday". Back then all 8 of us were in the same hole. Today we have d…

This is going to sound grossly presumptuous, because it is: Please find these men you served with and give them a call, or write a letter, while all of you are still alive. The thought of you guys drifting so far apart with so little contact is making me sad.

Speaking as a fellow (?) South African, albeit younger (too young to have been involved in that conflict) I feel it's worth pointing out that their drifting apart may very well be by choice, or rather: simply not making an effort to stay in touch.

In high school I had two teachers who were involved in the bush war or 'spent time on the border' as it is often referred to, both of them clearly very scarred by their experiences. One of them outright shell shocked.

I'm guessing that there may be some level of self preservation in leaving experiences like that in the past, reconnecting with your life and getting on with it.

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#185
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some reason people seem to think that someone wanting to be around because of a person's fame or money is less pure than other reasons because it's not real. There's a big difference between a person's intrinsic properties and his money. You like your friends; you like the rich guy's money. And when you're around someone for his money you're playing a part. It's a job. You're not going to tell him what you reall…

Here's the thing though.... If there was more of a gift economy in these cases, the intrinsic properties would be something like generosity, fairness, and honor. You have a lot of money and have a reputation for these things, who is to say that isn't more real? The problem though is form. I am generous with my good fortune to you. What are you doing for me in return? It used to be that a gift demanded reciprocity (as…

I think the examples you mention would fall into the sphere of "acquaintances" or "family friends" or "connections" or "not enemies" today (in the business or strategic sense). We are talking about actual close friends, comrades, (BFFs if u want) here.

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#187
post #39

I knew a guy who made a boatload of money off of the dotcom bubble. He kept doubling down and doubling down, then at right about the peak he told himself "I have as much money as I'll ever need if I cash out now. There's no reason to take any more risks." In other words, he timed it perfectly (based on his own situation - he wasn't genius and he would freely admit that) So here he was, a multimillionaire who'd spent…

I have a couple of wealthier friends and one that is getting wealthier by the day.

The way I solved this problem between us is that I refuse to accept "mercy" gifts. I will accept an earnest gift when It is presented out of kindness. Also I demand that our financials be thoroughly transparent with me covering my fair share.

It works exceptionally well, allowing for our friendship to develop at its own and sincere pace. Besides, being around him and having such a friend/mentor is a gift that keeps on giving, more than a paid this or that ever could.

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#188
I've moved around a lot, and in between countries too. Making friends when you are older gets harder, and if there is a culture difference it gets even harder. That said, I've also gotten better at it over the years. You see this sort of thing in people who have spent big chunks of their life as an expat. There are also places around the world that have a lot of English speaking expats around, where it's fairly easy to make friends. These friendships aren't all long lasting, and you only manage to keep a fraction of the friends you have made in a new location. That said, you do value good friendships a lot more and will make the extra effort to travel to see these people.

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#189
post #65

1. It helps to volunteer regularly for a non-profit cause that you believe in, or at least approve of. You likely will get to know some "nice" people; once you establish that you're actually committed to whatever the cause is, and not just on the prowl, then you can establish lifelong bonds. 2. It also helps to be cheerfully unembarrassed about taking the lead in organizing groups to do stuff. People are often secret…

It's funny that you felt you had to couch the church thing this way. There are more "religious" people on HN than you'd think, but they're mostly closeted. Unlike the real world, where concerns about "a war on Christianity" are entirely hysterical, there is a real intolerance towards it here. Despite incredible advances in connectivity over the last 20 years, I think you'd have a hard time finding thinkers who believ…

If you want really good theology I would recommend Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis: http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652...

I'm a Christian myself and have been one for nearly two two years. I came from a more or less non-religious background growing up and today Christ is of utmost importance in my life displacing everything else.

I look forward to ultimate redemption of mankind - basically a time where every problem in the world will be solved and there will be no suffering. It will be a time when humans and their creator (God) will dwell together and Christ will rule over them with justice and love. I believe there is no human description of this supernatural world, what I assume is that it will be filled with unfathomable joy and splendour.

A few verses from the Bible about it: (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21&#3...)

(Please bear in mind most of this is symbolic as is the rest of the Book of Revelation)

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away ... 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” 5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life." - Revelation 21

Most importantly of all, the price (or ticket) to enter the Kingdom of Heaven has _already_ been paid; by Jesus on the cross.

The core Christian belief is that _all_ humans are sinner (or evil) and that none of us are deserving of anything but death. But God so loved us (his creation), that he decided to save us by taking the penalty of our sin (which is death) upon himself on the cross. (Jesus is an exact representation of God - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+1%3A3&#3...). He intends to eventually fix everything; this world, and unite us with himself. The good news is that He freely offers us his salvation and all we have to do to receive it is to believe in him.

This oft-quoted Bible verse summarizes it well: "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A16-17&#...)

Re: The Challenge of Making Friends as an Adult

#190

You don't even need to me approaching middle age. I'm in my 20s and moved halfway across the country recently, and am continually amazed at how hard it is to make good friends of the same gender. Given all the websites/events/groups dedicated to meeting people to date I've found it far easier than ever to get dates, but more difficult to make friends. It's a weird reversal. There's probably an opportunity for a littl…

you should make dates with prospective friends. we fall in love a little with guy friends, so instead of the outcome being 'let's explore a romantic chemistry' it is 'let's explore a friendship chemistry', but the mechanics are the same: one on one meetup with a stranger.
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