Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts • Hacker News Board

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#531

Post by Nasrudith » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 7:49 PM UTC

some_furry wrote: post #25

vouaobrasil wrote: post #6

I wonder if the new drug of choice is actually technology. In some ways I think that the addiction to technology has some similar mellowing effects as drugs. Some research indicates that smartphone addiction is also related to low self-esteem and avoidant attachment [1] and that smartphones can become an object of attachment [2]. The replacement of drugs by technology is not surprising as it significantly strengthens…

Does compulsive technology use trigger the same neural pathways as addictive substances? Because "addiction" is a very loaded term (with a specific clinical definition when it's not being used colloquially), and the sources you cited used "attachment" instead.

Triggering the same neural pathways is also a flawed way to look at things. Dopamine exists without the presence of drugs despite the dysfunctional state of discourse demonizing literally anything which releases dopamine. A true dopamine detox would in fact be very bad for your health, physical and mental. The point being, drugs exploit existing pathways and biochemical interactions, they don't create them de novo. The set isn't just "compulsive technology | drugs" it is "compulsive technology | drugs | eating | running | mental stimulation | sexual activity | etc."

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#532

Post by Animats » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

coffeebeqn wrote: post #307

Animats wrote: post #241

The pot industry is having serious problems. The market was not only way overestimated, sales are down.[1] World's smallest violin plays. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/de36eb98-f28d-4594-9ae6-624d25802...

This growth story I never understood. The grey market has been extremely saturated for at least 20-30 years - demand can’t really grow from “everyone who wants it has it”. There is barely any value add that a company can do with the raw output (flower). The growing and processing equipment is already a mature market. Growing is easy if you can follow a basic guide and invest $500 in equipment. Harvesting is just cutt…

A competent large scale farmer can outcompete a random Joe, much to the annoyance of the potheads who thought they were going to own the industry. The largest pot operation in California also has tomatoes and cucumbers growing in similar greenhouses.[1][2] Their production cost is down to $103/lb.[2] "For a small farmer, it costs around $500 to grow a pound. It’s barely paying the bills.”[3]

It's commercial agriculture. Go big or go home. The little operations are thus rapidly closing down.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/cannabis/article/largest-california-c...

[2] https://glasshousebrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Q2-2...

[3] https://www.foodengineeringmag.com/articles/99944-price-per-...

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#533

Post by t-3 » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 7:52 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #248

jaco6 wrote: post #50

Two things: Even the “cool kids” are staying inside and using their phones all day. Cool used to mean you were at the party, now it just means you have a high snapchat score. Other thing is genuine fear of accidental fentanyl consumption. They’re making fake Xans with fentanyl in them, fentanyl is being found in coke powder. Plenty of people aren’t taking the risk with street drugs anymore. Jelly Roll said so in an i…

Why would anyone put fent in cocaine? It’s more expensive and has the opposite effect. Drug selling is all about repeat customers I don’t really believe this happens apart from accidents.

> It’s more expensive and has the opposite effect.

Nonsense, fentanyl is waaay cheaper than coke or heroin or any other street drug, like nearly an order of magnitude more per dollar when buying dealer-level quantities. The depressant/stimulant effect stuff is somewhat true, but different people are effected differently by different drugs, most people aren't drug connoisseurs, and a large part of the high is psychosomatic, so experienced and knowledgeable people might have some idea of the purity but it won't really stop others from buying.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#534

Post by Modified3019 » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 7:54 PM UTC

klooney wrote: post #518

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a different beast, these days, though. Back then, only "nerds" socialized online. Nowadays, everyone does it. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I'm really glad that kids aren't screwing up their formative years. Drug use during growing/development years can wreck someone's life. The issue is that, if you are an addict (which is different from physical addiction. Many addicts never get physically addicted…

I was addicted to, of all things, text MUDs, when I was younger. It's ditch weed compared to what you can get now.

My drug of choice was “Wyvern” by Steve Yegge, which was heavily influenced by MUDs despite being graphical: https://web.archive.org/web/20040102095422/http://www.caboch...

You could connect to it with just telnet, and while not realistically playable that way, it was great when just chatting.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#535

Post by titanomachy » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:01 PM UTC

aeonik wrote: post #405

throwameme wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am just old enough to have experienced 9/11 when i was in elementary school. it was a similar change to society to how covid screwed everything when i was a child, there was no security in airports. like literally NONE. you could walk in and buy a flight with physical cash. if you wanted an international flight, there was a metal detector like you might find in a night club government ID and drivers licence did not…

I thought the AR-15s that the police carried in America were semi-auto. More like a sporting rifle than what the military uses. AR-15s are more versatile than shotguns, though less powerful they are more accurate. If your going to carry a long gun around, it's probably the most logical option. Basically anyone who isn't a prohibited person in America can field the same equipment. Though I think police have more acces…

Police carrying AR-15s is a very different vibe from police with only holstered sidearms. Regardless of the trigger system they’re equipped with.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#536

Post by gklitz » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

I think one of the major obvious changes from generation to generation is that it’s now the norm that anyone who’s too drunk or acting up because of drugs will expect to be instantly live broadcast to the world and have those videos shared to anyone who knows them.

Back 20 years ago if you got too drunk it was just a funny story people would retell, now at least in college it’s a fixed part of your online persona as anyone who knows you will have videos of it share with them.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#537

Post by Wytwwww » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

sznio wrote: post #254

smogcutter wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that Covid was disillusioning for young people, but uniquely so? The 2008 financial crisis, 9/11, and the GWoT would all like a word. The only generation I can think of without a similar formative crisis (in the US at least) is Gen X. Does the death of Kurt Cobain count?

the financial crisis was just financial. 9/11 or war on terror was just behind a tv screen. covid was actually something everyone felt personally - not just empathized with through media. I feel like I just started recovering mentally from the lockdowns - all my college years eaten up by them.

> really ripped away the illusion that the adults of the world are in competent control

In the context of this the GFC was much worse, though. It was entirely avoidable and a direct outcome of extreme greed and extreme incompetence. With Covid/lockdowns all options sucked to one extent or another.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

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Post by LorenzoGood » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #157

LorenzoGood wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the “cool kids” are staying inside and using their phones all day. Cool used to mean you were at the party, now it just means you have a high snapchat score. Eyebrow raise.

At what? This is clearly true by experience. As long as you remember it’s a rate and not an absolute statement. Cool kids still go to more parties and are less terminally online than their lamer peers, but it’s a lot less parties and a lot more screen time for the cool kid as well.

As an 18 year old, this sounds untrue, and oversimplified. Nobody cares about their snapscore.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#539

Post by crtified » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:07 PM UTC

smogcutter wrote: post #199

crtified wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that, for the young people of the world, the Covid years really ripped away the illusion that the adults of the world are in competent control. To a degree that modern generations (from otherwise relatively stable, wealthy countries) have never experienced. While there are other major factors clearly contributing to the generational angst, I think this was the catalyst. I wonder how the economics stack up,…

Agreed that Covid was disillusioning for young people, but uniquely so? The 2008 financial crisis, 9/11, and the GWoT would all like a word. The only generation I can think of without a similar formative crisis (in the US at least) is Gen X. Does the death of Kurt Cobain count?

When I was a kid in the 1980s, distant buildings were bombed too, and endless Cold wars and Middle East wars etc were a given too. However, your average 12 year old doesn't deeply care about finance or politics or distant wars. Their day-to-day routine goes on. Those are adult problems.

With Covid, the difference is that it came home, for everyone. And not just the US, but globally. Every home was directly affected, for months or years. 9/11 or 2008 didn't lock down entire countries for weeks and months at a time, impose country wide curfews, close all schools, suppress all socialising, impose home schooling, adults/parents working from home or not-at-all, shuttering of global supply lines, increased mortality fears for all older relatives, and constant everyday panic headlines and monitoring for years. We're still working through the aftereffects. So yes, very unique, in its direct effect upon the youth of wealthy countries in modern society.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

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Post by titanomachy » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #217

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It replaced those things but that list doesn’t include the major time sinks, besides TV: social media, porn, doomscrolling. We already made fun of TV zombies, and at the worst it absolutely can remind me of a drunk or unstable person.

I understand how much people are emotionally reactive to these part of the net, and the cultural hatred some can have for "unproductive" time (does it match what you call "time sinks"?) I still don't think they stand on the same foot as vodka.

I find it easy to drink in moderation because I only do it socially. One or two drinks at a dinner party has never cost me a day of work. But I have spent a whole morning in bed scrolling Instagram Reels instead of going in to work.

Passive consumption of short-form videos lacks that social feedback mechanism that keeps my behavior in check. It’s easy to stay up way later than I meant to and be wrecked the next day.

Consuming by yourself in a dark room is the default consumption mode for Reels/Shorts/TikTok, whereas in my social circles drinking alone is very unusual.