Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not very common though.
In my experience it is nowadays. I'm Gen Z, by 14 all my friends had credit or debit cards.
Don't forget prepaid Visa/MasterCard too. (Maybe grandma still sends a $20 every birthday.)
Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
511–520 of 624 posts
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
I couldn't agree more. Using the term addiction in contexts where it is not medically valid is very dangerous (like yelling "fire" in a theater) and leads to the use of violent force against those one falsely claims are "addicted". Audio-visual stimuli from screens and speakers has never been shown to be able to have the same effects as a dopaminergic drug which is to say, completely turning up incentive salience reg…
There is no reason to assume that a behavior that activates the reward system is categorically less harmful than a molecule that activates it directly. In both cases it can completely overcome someones will such that it destroys their life and they can’t escape it. Both are addiction. You’re making a distinction without a difference- a fire only needs to be hot enough to kill, it does not become “invalid” just becaus…
>no reason to assume that a behavior that activates the reward system is categorically less harmful than a molecule that activates it directly.
There are mountains of papers, books and all sorts of evidence that drugs that directly act as agonists for populations of dopaminergic neurons the VTA that mediate incentive salience (methamphetamine, cocaine, etc) are incredibly addictive (wanting, not liking, not reward. reward prediction). This is very different than an experience that is naturally rewarding like sex (liking, and maybe wanting later remembering the liking). Anticipation of sex may activate VTA dopaminergic populations but the reward of sexual activity itself does not. And certainly not things like viewing audio-visual media on screens.
I use medical to emphasize that when you try to reason about these things without fine grained understanding you come to false general conclusions.
I do agree that with drugs that just activate reward directly (like opioids with glutamergic populations in the shell of the nucleus accumbens) can rapidly become addictive. But these too are different than expriences that happen to activate reward through sensation. For example, sexual activity is a behavior that activates reward yet very few people become addicted to it.
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Teens aren't ... having sex. Nor are people in their 20s (that is, both groups are having much less sex). That is the most worrying thing to me. People are not even engaging in the most fundamental, unavoidable, pleasurable human drive. They seem very much like traumatized people, on a massive scale, just trying to survive.
On the flip side, imagine the tremendous spiritual development possible to be unlocked by a generation undistracted by carnal desire.
But instead are distracted by modern algorithms built for a slow drip of dopamine!
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a different beast, these days, though. Back then, only "nerds" socialized online. Nowadays, everyone does it. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I'm really glad that kids aren't screwing up their formative years. Drug use during growing/development years can wreck someone's life. The issue is that, if you are an addict (which is different from physical addiction. Many addicts never get physically addicted…
It was maybe only nerds in 1994, but by 1998 everyone at school was asking their parents for the internet so they could talk on ICQ—not just the nerds!
That was still nerd behavior depending on the group you were in. A lot of folks knew AIM, but ICQ was different.
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#515I wonder if the new drug of choice is actually technology. In some ways I think that the addiction to technology has some similar mellowing effects as drugs. Some research indicates that smartphone addiction is also related to low self-esteem and avoidant attachment [1] and that smartphones can become an object of attachment [2]. The replacement of drugs by technology is not surprising as it significantly strengthens…
Luigi and Uncle Ted both thought technology was evil, and preached about it to anyone who would hear but they were both censored and ignored, forcing them to violence to reclaim there tongues. They both knew that, as Euripides said many years before: 'This is slavery, not to speak one's thought.'
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
> have been delaying adulthood If you have kids, do you see them as less mature than how you perceived yourself at their age ? TBH I feel the opposite: current kids have a lot more to deal with, and are expected to be much much more down to earth than a few decades ago. The most basic things: a single post on an SNS can stick with them for the rest of their life, yet we moved half of our social life online.
My observation of teens online, as someone who was once an online teenager, is that they are noticeably less mature than my cohort. Perhaps because it's no longer just the nerds who are online all day—if everyone in my high school was chronically online, there's a high possibility that Bush-era teens would've been just as openly immature and stupid as today's youth. Whatever happened to pretending to be an apathetic…
Lol, when I was 12-14 that is exactly what I tried to pull off... A early 20 something so people wouldn't kick me from the server/team lol
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fear the (negative) impact of our current technological drugs goes beyond the impact of traditional drugs. I’ve seen kids not even 3-4 years old already hooked to smartphone screens. Even toddlers around 1 year old with an smartphone mount in their stroller. Main impact on kids is lack of socialization, lack of emotional regulation and a complete impact on their capabilities to keep their attention. Those used to b…
I’m very much for legalizing and regulating (almost) all drugs, but watch out with the confirmation bias of “everyone in my social circle who used recreationally turned out fine.” I can’t find it right now but I read a great comment on legalization that pointed out that a kid experimenting with weed and cocaine in college is doing so for a radically different reason than a kid doing it escape the daily misery of his…
Citation needed on claims of poor people opposing drug legalization. I can show you stats from Oregon showing that poor people overwhelmingly support, and still support, the bulk of our legalization efforts (I.e legal shrooms and legal weed)
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
”My 13 year old and his buddies socialize online, period.” Nothing new under the sun. Me and my friends were like that 30 something years ago.
It's a different beast, these days, though. Back then, only "nerds" socialized online. Nowadays, everyone does it. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I'm really glad that kids aren't screwing up their formative years. Drug use during growing/development years can wreck someone's life. The issue is that, if you are an addict (which is different from physical addiction. Many addicts never get physically addicted…
I was addicted to, of all things, text MUDs, when I was younger. It's ditch weed compared to what you can get now.
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
The improved treatment, and acceptance, of ADHD is certainly one key element here. I hope we continue to support kids if they show symptoms of any psychological disorder. Here's a 2018 study following kids into adulthood and questioning them on their substance abuse: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5985671/ My brother is one of those really bad cases, while I got my diagnosis just recently; never had more th…
We can take a good thing too far (and probably are at that point). ADHD is being overdiagnosed and medication is being overprescribed, especially in young men.
I don't think we've hit overdiagnosed, I think we've massively underestimated how many sufferers there are. But assuming you're right, so what?
There's an argument to be made that getting the diagnosis right for kids is imperative because the medication is essentially impressed upon them but for adults, who cares? They're not cheap, the side effects are kinda awful, it's annoying to get the dosing right so you don't build up a tolerance, you have to go to a doctor every time you need your rx renewed. If someone without adhd is going through all that because stimulants help then power to 'em I guess. There's not really a downside, stimulants at the doses prescribed for adhd aren't life ruining.
Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts
#520Another aspect here I think is the generalized fear and anxiety present in young people. Having spoken to some family members in the 15-18 age bracket, the message they seem to be receiving is that they are without a future... they won't be buying homes, they won't be getting high paying jobs, and that the system is not going to work in their favor. I think people of this age are uniquely feeling mortal and vulnerabl…
This isn't a new phenomenon though.
Gen-X felt the same way. The entire youth culture at the time was based around the vibe that the culture sucked and there wasn't a future worth having for younger people. Apathy was the youth cultural vibe of the day.
Then again with older millenials it happened with the great financial crisis. There was a widespread feeling of hopelessness about the future. Outsourcing and trade liberalization (the AI-like job crusher of that period) left the future job market uncertain.
I think what's new now is social media and persistent phones. If you're feeling anxiety about the future you don't escape into wild parties, you escape into your phone and videogames.