Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts • Hacker News Board

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#501

Post by tomrod » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

chaps wrote: post #458

knome wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've had multiple people "misunderstand" your comment. I suggest reconsidering how you express whatever it is you are trying to say, as I and the others are responding to what you managed to actually communicate, whether that message was your intended one or no.

It has been put into consideration. But now that we've made it clear that there have been ~ misunderstandings ~, can you try to see where I'm coming from now? :)

That you used a forced analogy (even if experiential) and ethos in a policy discussion? Sure, I can see that. I can even see blaming drugs for mental health issues and addiction despite the causality really being screwy if you try to force it that way.

It's okay to be wrong, even when emotional, so long as we learn from it.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#502

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:29 PM UTC

tirant wrote: post #280

vouaobrasil wrote: post #6

I wonder if the new drug of choice is actually technology. In some ways I think that the addiction to technology has some similar mellowing effects as drugs. Some research indicates that smartphone addiction is also related to low self-esteem and avoidant attachment [1] and that smartphones can become an object of attachment [2]. The replacement of drugs by technology is not surprising as it significantly strengthens…

I fear the (negative) impact of our current technological drugs goes beyond the impact of traditional drugs. I’ve seen kids not even 3-4 years old already hooked to smartphone screens. Even toddlers around 1 year old with an smartphone mount in their stroller. Main impact on kids is lack of socialization, lack of emotional regulation and a complete impact on their capabilities to keep their attention. Those used to b…

[deleted]

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#503

Post by chmod775 » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:33 PM UTC

herval wrote: post #472

tremon wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with them having seen people close to them destroyed by drug use. But isn't this a false correlation, then? Were they destroyed by drug use, or by the daily misery of their ghetto neighborhood?

I think poor people in the US are against legalization mostly due to the decades of “war on drugs” propaganda or other forms of conservatism (eg religion), not because they’ve seen people close to them being destroyed by drug use

[flagged]

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#504

Post by tomrod » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:36 PM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #475

etimberg wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you don’t have kids because as the parent of a toddler this is a terrible idea. The last thing a toddler needs is AI hallucinations “teaching” them

I don't have kids, but I am not talking about contemporary AIs which love to hallucinate.

Until a new modem architecture comes along to supplement current LLMs, I'd recommend keeping this idea in the speculation bucket.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#505

Post by jrm4 » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:42 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #362

cluckindan wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”My 13 year old and his buddies socialize online, period.” Nothing new under the sun. Me and my friends were like that 30 something years ago.

It's a different beast, these days, though. Back then, only "nerds" socialized online. Nowadays, everyone does it. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I'm really glad that kids aren't screwing up their formative years. Drug use during growing/development years can wreck someone's life. The issue is that, if you are an addict (which is different from physical addiction. Many addicts never get physically addicted…

My gut is that this will mostly break even at best.

Whatever "gains" you see in terms of less drug addiction, etc, you're going to see losses in terms of the negative effects of not being "in person."

I confess that it's probably to early to even strongly know what those negative effects are, but I don't think this picture is likely one of strong improvement.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#506

Post by levocardia » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:43 PM UTC

jaco6 wrote: post #50

Two things: Even the “cool kids” are staying inside and using their phones all day. Cool used to mean you were at the party, now it just means you have a high snapchat score. Other thing is genuine fear of accidental fentanyl consumption. They’re making fake Xans with fentanyl in them, fentanyl is being found in coke powder. Plenty of people aren’t taking the risk with street drugs anymore. Jelly Roll said so in an i…

>Other thing is genuine fear of accidental fentanyl consumption.

This is a huge contributor, I think. Many people at risk for drug use have older friends/family who have overdosed on fentanyl -- "accidental poisoning" is the leading cause of death for Americans age 20-44 and #2 for ages 15-24; virtually all of those deaths are from opiates.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#507

Post by mgbmtl » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:48 PM UTC

derwiki wrote: post #462

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a different beast, these days, though. Back then, only "nerds" socialized online. Nowadays, everyone does it. I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, I'm really glad that kids aren't screwing up their formative years. Drug use during growing/development years can wreck someone's life. The issue is that, if you are an addict (which is different from physical addiction. Many addicts never get physically addicted…

It was maybe only nerds in 1994, but by 1998 everyone at school was asking their parents for the internet so they could talk on ICQ—not just the nerds!

ICQ was a way of texting friends so that you could go party. At least for me, and I'm a nerd. I remember even "normal" friends were using IRC as a way to hookup. Cell phones were not very common.

Looking at my non-nerd 17 year old, they meet maybe once a month, and it's to cook food together during the day. Nobody drinks. They just see it as a waste of money. Maybe not the most normal sample. They love biking and also go to circus school together (Montreal).

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#508

Post by righthand » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

directevolve wrote: post #492

righthand wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this happens the reason 90% of the time is usually not because the program wasn’t working but the opposition to the program has made sure to either gut the funding or put in measures that makes those programs not work (only hiring 2 people to handle all the work or excessive operating requirements. Cops will fight tooth and nail against social programs because it reduces their budget when problems are solved. Lo…

In Portland, decriminalization was poorly planned, new treatment options were implemented badly, and the alternative penalties for possession were not meaningfully enforced. It was a failure of execution. I don’t think it tells us much about how well an ideally functioning decriminalization or legalization effort would work. It does update us in understanding that it’s difficult to accomplish this transition successf…

Absolutely, Americans love saying “we’ll just send the cops after them.” Because then they don’t have to do any of the hard work of understanding or funding the programs. Americans are lazy when it comes to solving actual hard problems.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#509

Post by computerthings » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:51 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #416

tirant wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear the (negative) impact of our current technological drugs goes beyond the impact of traditional drugs. I’ve seen kids not even 3-4 years old already hooked to smartphone screens. Even toddlers around 1 year old with an smartphone mount in their stroller. Main impact on kids is lack of socialization, lack of emotional regulation and a complete impact on their capabilities to keep their attention. Those used to b…

Why are the moral panics always about the media diets of children? Let’s talk about old people for a minute. 1) They can be socially isolated in ways that few children are. An unsupervised septuagenarian can go literal days without speaking to another live human being. 2) They’re more technologically competent than we give them credit for, certainly enough to spend days doomscrolling their politically aligned newsfee…

Why play kids and the elderly off against the other? How is there even a dichotomy here?

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#510

Post by internet101010 » Sat, Dec 21, 2024, 6:51 PM UTC

herval wrote: post #358

will5421 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing Devil’s advocate… Socialisation is what’s driving technology use. It’s just happening on the phones, not irl. Just like with alcohol, anyone not participating will be left out. If everyone’s on their phones all the time, IRL socialisation won’t matter compared to socialisation via phones.

I think this was true a decade ago, where people used social media to talk to each other and actively kept chats with friends, etc. What I’m seeing now is social media got so hyper optimized for engagement that it became a passive consumption mechanism, and the only “socialization” left is sharing memes. It’s a widespread digital heroin epidemic

The communication aspect has just moved to other places.