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Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

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Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#41
post #28

I've downsized a few times over the years. 1080 > 920 > 720 > 660. How much have I missed having a bigger space? None. I could probably drop down to about 550 tomorrow and still have tons of room. The first thing is "usable square footage". In the larger units (> 720) I had things like hallways. Closets for a water heater or furnace. Etc. When I dropped down to 720, I actually had more usable square footage than when…

Do you think you'll ever have kids?

I grew up with my sister, grandfather (for 10 years), dog, and two parents in a 960 square foot single-story ranch in a heavily subsidized subdivision (with an armed forces stipend both my grandfather and father qualified for). We did fine. A lot nicer of a result than the trailer home we would've otherwise lived in.

I had friends that lived in small tenements. I had friends that grew up in the projects. 4-5 people, less space. Did fine.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#42
post #3

"That demographic cohort wants to continue their collegiate experience for an indefinite amount of time," Kennedy said. "I envision this as a launching space as they get established." The "collegiate experience" Kennedy seems to be going for with this is dormitory-style living (the article even touts the common areas that will be available to tenants, just like some of the pitches when I was shopping around for colle…

I think that's often a desire to get away from the people and culture in the dorms, not necessarily the lifestyle. A college dorm with people in their mid 20s working 9-5 jobs would be a fun experiment

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#43
post #26
post #25

It's sort of silly that a minimum apartment size is even legislated in the first place. Somebody who chooses to live in a small apartment does so because it's their best available option.

Sure. And why do we have codes that demand working heating? People should be able to choose to buy lots of blankets instead.

Just curious, what do you believe is the justification for laws demanding minimum apt sizes/minimum heating requirements? The ordinary arguments about externalities certainly don't seem to apply...

As an anecdote, while I was poor, I didn't turn the heat on because I couldn't afford it. Do you believe the law should have forced me to turn the heat on? If not, why not?

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#44

The problem isn't that SF is running out of square footage for luxuriously spacious apartments. The problem is that SF doesn't allow the construction of high-density housing, or much new housing of any kind. They gained all of 50-something market-rate housing units in 2011. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/2011/09/19/zoning-law... http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2012/05/san_franciscos_to...

This is probably the biggest factor. So much of SF is covered very low density housing.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#45
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect pet owners are not the target market for this type of living space.

Sure, although it's common for single people to have a pet. I don't know about the US, but in Canada I think it's illegal for renters to discriminate against pet owners. Many still do however.

In the US, it's very common to discriminate against pet owners, either by not renting to them or by requiring extra deposit against pet-induced damage -- or even worse, just demanding extra "pet rent".

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#46
post #12

I was just talking with a friend yesterday about living in Tokyo. A big part of what makes it reasonable is that everything is smaller. The containers of food I buy at the store are smaller and fit in my smaller refrigerator. There's a laundry place right next door and they give you hangars that are half width (folding the shirts back on themselves like when you buy them) so they can fit in a shallow closet. As an Am…

I've spent lots of time in Seoul, at one point crashing in the walk-in closet of a friend for a few weeks. The apartment was pretty small by American standards, the hallway between the front door and the bathroom was a little wide, with the extra space taken up by a counter, fridge, sink and two burners as the kitchen. On the other wall of the hall was the door into the closet. Down the hall next to the closet was a very sparse bathroom that was effectively a powder room (toilet + sink) with a shower hose on the wall. And at the end of the hall was a small bedroom that fit a queen size bed and a small desk and not much else.

In the U.S. I live in a fairly large house and was pretty concerned about the small living area. But it worked! Everything is kind of geared to support that kind of living arrangement. If you sleep on the floor, by rolling up your bedding in the morning you suddenly have a living room. Fold out tables and eating while sitting on the floor and you have a dining room that can fit (not a typo) 8 people reasonably comfortably. The floor of the closet had room for me and my wife. And since the floors are heated in Korea, even in the winter we were incredibly warm.

To eat you buy what you need for that day, or even that meal at the grocery next door, and your frequent trips in and out of the apartment give you plenty of time to bring out trash and other things.

Feel cooped up or want to do some kind of activity like play video games or drink and chat with your friends (but don't want to disturb the neighbors)? There's literally an entire city full of services designed for the apartment dweller, everything from cheap Internet Cafes (something like a dollar an hour), to cheap bars with private rooms for your friends at no extra cost!

Other than sleeping and a few meals, we really didn't spend much time there, instead spending almost all of our time out and about. It really is just an entirely different way of living - not better or worse, just different.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#47
post #23

The idea of sharing a kitchen counter and computer desk just makes me think crumbs in the keyboard. However, minimizing the kitchen and having really high end shared kitchen facilities would be great. Between the ages of 24 and 28 I didn't eat at home even once. One of the underlying sources for 'smaller is better' is Christopher Alexander's "A Pattern Language". It also is the source that inspired the pattern moveme…

I think most people would just use either the dining table or the one by the window instead.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#48
post #28

I've downsized a few times over the years. 1080 > 920 > 720 > 660. How much have I missed having a bigger space? None. I could probably drop down to about 550 tomorrow and still have tons of room. The first thing is "usable square footage". In the larger units (> 720) I had things like hallways. Closets for a water heater or furnace. Etc. When I dropped down to 720, I actually had more usable square footage than when…

Do you think you'll ever have kids?

I grew up in an apartment with 600 square footage. We did fine.

Now, we are family of five with a dog. We live very comfortably in 1400 square foot house. That is less than 300 square foot per person.

Square footage is overrated. It is all about maximizing your usable space. As added bonus, we spend less time in clean up and have less clutter to keep up.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#49
post #40
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But as an aside, if your water heater's closet floorspace was counted in your square footage I believe you were ripped off. Square-footage figures aren't supposed to include that. I would love to be corrected if I'm wrong.

>Square-footage figures aren't supposed to include that. Keywords: Aren't supposed to. Square footage is often a wee bit inflated in listings. Sometimes it's considerably inflated (including stairwells, outdoor balconies, closets, hallways, etc.). I don't go as far as bring a measuring tape, but when I look at a space I try to figure out of the areas I care about are as big as I need them to be. Much easier and simpl…

The square footage for my apartment is measured from the exterior facing of the building to the corridor side of the walls adjoining the hallway to the centerline of walls shared with neighboring apartments, and includes the support pillar in the middle room which is keeping the building from falling down.

It's not even space I could use if I hypothetically tore out all of the interior walls and had one big empty room.

Re: Micro-apartments next for S.F.?

#50
post #26
post #25

It's sort of silly that a minimum apartment size is even legislated in the first place. Somebody who chooses to live in a small apartment does so because it's their best available option.

Sure. And why do we have codes that demand working heating? People should be able to choose to buy lots of blankets instead.

I don't see how that follows logically. Please enlighten me.
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