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The era of open voice assistants

home-assistant.io

121–130 of 290 posts

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A group buy for an existing product makes sense. Want to buy a 24TB Western Digital hard drive? It’s $350. But if you and your 1000 closest friends get together the price can be $275. But for a first time unknown product? You get a lot fewer interested parties. Lots of people want to wait for tech reviews and blog posts before committing to it. And group buys being the only way to get them means availability will be…

Kickstarter shows that a lot of people feel different.

Kickstarter isn’t a group buy. Similar, but not the same.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A group buy for an existing product makes sense. Want to buy a 24TB Western Digital hard drive? It’s $350. But if you and your 1000 closest friends get together the price can be $275. But for a first time unknown product? You get a lot fewer interested parties. Lots of people want to wait for tech reviews and blog posts before committing to it. And group buys being the only way to get them means availability will be…

> But for a first time unknown product? You get a lot fewer interested parties. Lots of people want to wait for tech reviews and blog posts before committing to it. I used to think so too. But then Kickstarter proved that actually, as long as you have a good advertising style, communicate well, and get lucky, you can get people to contribute literal millions for a product that hasn't even reached the blueprints stage…

Kickstarter isn't a group buy.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#123
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But like, isn't YAML still available for configuring things? For most, yes. But for some included integrations it's UI-only (all of those I've had to migrate, it's been a single click + comment out lines, and the config has been a breeze (stuff like just an api key/IP address + 1-2 optional params).

Where and how are those configs stored? There has to be a backing representation somewhere, right?

In the Home assistant database (which is SQLite IIRC).

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what you mean by that.

For me the Alexa devices I own have gotten worse. Can't do simple things (setting a timer used to be instant, now it takes 10-15 seconds of thinking assuming it heard properly), playing music is a joke (will try to play through Deezer even though I disaled that integration months ago, and then will default to Amazon Music instead of Spotify which is set as the default). And then even simple skills can't understand wh…

That’s interesting because I have a bunch of Echos of various types in my house and my timers and answers are instant. Is it possible your internet connection is wonky or you have a slow DNS server or congested Wi-Fi? I don’t have the absolute newest devices but the one in my bedroom is the very original Echo that I got during their preview stage, the one in my kitchen is the Echo Show 7” and I have a bunch of puck ones and spherical ones (don’t remember the generations) around the house. One did die at one point after years of use and got replaced but it was in my kids room so I suspect it was subject to some abuse.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need more projects like home assistant Isn't openHAB an existing popular alternative? https://www.openhab.org/

HA long ago blew past OpenHAB in functionality and community. Unless you have a hard-on for JVM services, HA is the better XP these days.

When I was evaluating both projects about 5 years ago, I went with openHAB because they had native apps with native controls (and thus nicer design imo). At the time, HA was still deep in YML config files and needed validation before saving etc etc. Not great UX.

Nowadays, HA has more of the features I would want and other external projects exist to create your own dashboards that take advantage of native controls.

Today I’m using Homey because I’m still a sucker for design and UX after a long day of coding boring admin panels in the day job, but I think in another few years when the hardware starts to show its age that I will move to home assistant. Hell, there exists an integration to bring HA devices into Homey but that would require running two hubs and potentially duplicating functionality. We shall see.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for a first time unknown product? You get a lot fewer interested parties. Lots of people want to wait for tech reviews and blog posts before committing to it. I used to think so too. But then Kickstarter proved that actually, as long as you have a good advertising style, communicate well, and get lucky, you can get people to contribute literal millions for a product that hasn't even reached the blueprints stage…

Kickstarter isn't a group buy.

Kickstarter is often basically a group buy. Project owners make MVPs and market/pitch it, get funding from the public, and then commission a large batch run.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the difference here is that HA has a huge community already. I believe the estimate was around 250k installations running actively. I suspect a huge chunk of the HA users venn diagram slice fits within the voice users slice.

Our estimates are more than a million active instances https://analytics.home-assistant.io/

More than a million? It says on the page: "424,548 Active Home Assistant Installations"

Am I missing something? Is it that these are just those you know are sharing details, and you can scale that up by a known percentage? :)

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#128
My plea / request : Make a home assistant a DROP IN replacement for a standard light switch. It has power, its adds functionality from the get-go (smart lighting), it’s placed in a convenient position for the room and no extra wires etc required.

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#129

It's too bad it's sold out everywhere. I've tried the ESP32 projects (little cube guy) for voice assistants in HA but it's mic/speaker weren't good enough. When it did hear me (and I heard it) it did an amazing job. For the first time I talked to a voice assistant that understood "Turn off office lights" to mean "Turn off all the lights in the office" without me giving it any special grouping (like I have to do in Al…

How did you find it for music tasks?

I didn’t test that. I normally just manually play through my Sonos speaker groups on my phone. I don’t like the sound from the Echos so I’m not in the habit of asking them to do anything related to music.

Right now I only use Alexa for smart house control and setting timers

Re: The era of open voice assistants

#130
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the Alexa devices I own have gotten worse. Can't do simple things (setting a timer used to be instant, now it takes 10-15 seconds of thinking assuming it heard properly), playing music is a joke (will try to play through Deezer even though I disaled that integration months ago, and then will default to Amazon Music instead of Spotify which is set as the default). And then even simple skills can't understand wh…

It is, I think, a common feeling among Echo/Alexa users. Now that people are getting used to the amazing understanding capabilities of ChatGPT and the likes, it probably increases the frustration level because you get a hint of how good it could be. I believe it boils down to two main issues: - The narrow AI systems used for intent inference have not scaled with the product features. - Amazon is stuck and can't signi…

This is very well thought out but I think your premise is a bit wrong. I have about a dozen Echos of various generations in my house. The oldest one is the very original from the preview stage. They still do everything I want them to and my entire family still uses them daily with zero frustration.

Local GPU doesn’t make sense for some of the same reasons you list. First, hardware requirements are changing rapidly. Why would I spend say $500 on a local GPU setup when in two years the LLM running on it will slow to a crawl due to limited resources? Probably would make more sense to rent a GPU on the cloud and upgrade as new generations come out.

Amazon has the opposite situation: their hardware and infra is upgraded en masse so different economies. Also while your GPU is idling at 20-30W while you aren’t home they can have 100% utilization of their resources because their GPUs are not limited to one customer at a time. Plus they can always offload the processing by contracting OpenAI or similar. Google is in an even better position to do this. Running a local LLM today doesn’t make a lot of sense, but it probably will at some point in like 10 years. I base this on the fact that the requirements for a device like a voice assistant are limited so at some point the hardware and software will catch up. We saw this with smartphones: you can now go 5 years without upgrading and things still work fine. But that wasn’t the case 10 years ago.

Second, Amazon definitely goofed. They thought people would use the Echos for shopping. They didn’t. Literally the only uses for them are alarms and timers, controlling lights and other smart home devices, and answering trivia questions. That’s it. What other requirements do you have that don’t fall in this category? And the Echos do this stuff incredibly well. They can do complex variations too, including turning off the lights after a timer goes off, scheduling lights, etc. Amazon is basically giving these devices away but the way to pivot this is to release a line of smart devices that connect to the Echos: smart bulbs and switches, smart locks, etc. They do have TVs which you can control with an Echo fairly well (and it is getting better). An ecosystem of smart devices that seamlessly interoperate will dwarf what HA has to offer (and I say this as someone who is firmly on HA’s side). And this is Amazon’s core competency: consumer devices and sales.

If your requirement is that you want Jarvis, it’s not the voice device part of it that you want. You want what it is connected to: a self driving car you can summon, DoorDash you can order by saying “I want a pizza”, a phone line so it can call your insurance company and dispute a claim on your behalf.

Now the last piece here is privacy and it’s a doozy. The only way to solve this for Amazon is to figure out some form of encrypted computation that allows for your voice prompts to be processed without them ever hearing clear voice versions. Mathematically possible, practically not so much. But clearly consumers don’t give a fuck whatsoever about it. They trust Amazon. That’s why there are hundreds of millions of these devices. So in effect while people on HN think they are the target market for these devices, they are clearly the opposite. We aren’t the thought leaders, we are the Luddites. And again I say this as someone who wishes there was a way to avoid the privacy issue, to have more control over my own tech, etc. I run an extensive HA setup but use Echos for the voice control because at least for now they are be best value. I am excited about TFA because it means there might be a better choice soon. But even here a $59 device is going to have a hard time competing with one that routinely go on sale for $19.

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