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Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

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Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#21

Post by mschuster91 »

nicbou wrote: post #14
natmaka wrote: post #7

In France, around 1985, an old man said to me that just after WW2 he was, as a French soldier, working in Germany in some airfield or military site which was then used to host Allied soldiers of various nationalities. They had a problem with Soviet soldiers dying due to some poisonous/toxic substance they consumed. It lasted for days, maybe weeks. Nobody had a clue. Then they realized that some/many Soviet soldiers h…

I read the same story from Anthony Beevor’s book about the battle of Berlin, although I think it was a different chemical. The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem.

> The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem.

s/seemed to have/has had and still has/

Life in Soviet/Russian armies is grim. Many of the recruits come from remote regions so poor that they lack fridges, washing machines and even toilets (today as well [2], hence all the looting in Ukraine [3]). Broken-down equipment - either because it was crap from the factory or because someone along the chain sold off parts and fuel on the black market -, substandard equipment, shoddy living conditions, and on top of all of that (which would turn most Western soldiers into alcoholics already) come brutal hazing rituals [1] that traumatise those who manage to survive it (there's tens of thousands of incidents a year, and as late as 2006 hundreds of deaths a year), and the meatwave battle strategy that both past and current leadership have embraced.

No wonder that the Russian / Soviet / Russian army has always been associated with alcoholism, most of them self-medicate with it (or whatever other drugs they can get their hands on). And it's also no surprise given the traumatisation that many of the Russian soldiers act completely depraved on the battlefield - why not rape, torture and kill for fun, when you're probably not going to survive the war long enough to get held accountable?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina

[2] https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_duri...

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#22

Post by lupusreal »

rightbyte wrote: post #19
genocidicbunny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be…

It is funny how putting on a uniform instantly makes you ... stupid. It is like a part of your brain shuts off. The social behaviour regress to like 5th grade in adult men. Like of someone tells you you tie your shoes in the wrong way you become a child mentally or something.

It's probably not the clothing, but rather some aspect of the circumstance that coincides with the uniform (such as, loss of freedom.)

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#23

Post by lupusreal »

cyberax wrote: post #9
m463 wrote: post #3

"American torpedoes utilized 180-proof ethyl alcohol as fuel for the miniature steam engines that drove them toward their targets." I wonder if this was by design ... I think isopropyl alcohol is probably generally available/popular only because it is not drinkable.

Ethyl alcohol is _cheap_. You literally need just a bunch of sugar, yeast, and a still. Straightforward, low-tech, and safe. Isopropyl alcohol needs to be synthesized from acetone, which itself is synthesized.

I don't know how the balance broke down during WW2, but synthesis of ethanol from ethylene in more recent times is economically competitive with fermentation. So for instance, fermentation of sugarcane is easily cheaper in Brazil, but in America most industrial ethanol came from synthesis until corn subsidies were introduced in the 80s which made fermentation cheaper than synthesis.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#24

Post by genocidicbunny »

rightbyte wrote: post #19
genocidicbunny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be…

It is funny how putting on a uniform instantly makes you ... stupid. It is like a part of your brain shuts off. The social behaviour regress to like 5th grade in adult men. Like of someone tells you you tie your shoes in the wrong way you become a child mentally or something.

Being a Soviet/Russian conscript is a terrible fucking lot in life. Being raped, beaten, denigrated was and remains extremely common. You're taken from wherever you had probably spent your whole life, thrown into a shitty uniform, shipped off like cattle to wherever it is that the motherland needs you, and used as an inanimate tool until you were either too broken and destroyed to function anymore, or you had managed to survive to the end of your term.

Alcoholism was and remains rampant, and in many cases even encouraged, as to keep the system 'lubricated'. Getting shitfaced on whatever you could find that'd get you there quickly is just an extension of that.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#25

Post by genocidicbunny »

russell_h wrote: post #11
namanyayg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were people even drinking jet fuel? Did it have any psychotropic effects?

I read somewhere that some Soviet jets used huge quantities of alcohol for cooling.

Still do, though these days they're a little more efficient, so it's only the flight crew that needs to be cooled with that alcohol.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#26

Post by ninalanyon »

rob74 wrote: post #17

TIL: > Alcohol proof (usually termed simply "proof" in relation to a beverage) is a measure of the content of ethanol (alcohol) in an alcoholic beverage. The term was originally used in England and from 1816 was equal to about 1.75 times the percentage of alcohol by volume (ABV). (from Wikipedia)

That omits entirely the origin and meaning of the word proof in this context.

Proof originally related to proving that the alcohol content was of such a degree that excise duty was due not to actually measuring the alcohol content.

"In 16th-century England, the original test involved soaking a pellet of gunpowder with the liquor. If it was still possible to ignite the wet gunpowder, the alcohol content of the liquor was rated above proof and it was taxed at a higher rate, and vice versa if the powder failed to ignite." https://homepages.uc.edu/~jensenwb/reprints/111.%20Proof.pdf

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#27

Post by rightbyte »

lupusreal wrote: post #22
rightbyte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny how putting on a uniform instantly makes you ... stupid. It is like a part of your brain shuts off. The social behaviour regress to like 5th grade in adult men. Like of someone tells you you tie your shoes in the wrong way you become a child mentally or something.

It's probably not the clothing, but rather some aspect of the circumstance that coincides with the uniform (such as, loss of freedom.)

Oh ye ofc. There are many normal professions with uniforms.

But when you are in it, putting on the uniform is the magic transition between the real you and vice corpral Rightbyte.

Loss of freedom is certainly the main factor.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#28

Post by rglullis »

When Ethanol started being used as car fuel in Brazil (in the 70's), there were not life-threatening additives on it, so of course some people would use it to mix with drinks.

The practice only stopped in the late 80's when there was a supply crisis and Brazil had to import methanol and the TV started reporting cases of people going blind due to severe methanol poisoning.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#29

Post by folli »

rglullis wrote: post #28

When Ethanol started being used as car fuel in Brazil (in the 70's), there were not life-threatening additives on it, so of course some people would use it to mix with drinks. The practice only stopped in the late 80's when there was a supply crisis and Brazil had to import methanol and the TV started reporting cases of people going blind due to severe methanol poisoning.

Methanol is a biproduct of fermentation, and will be part of the destillate if not done carefully.

I doubt that ethanol used in car and torpedo fuel will go through the same quality control than drinking alcohol.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#30

Post by rglullis »

folli wrote: post #29
rglullis wrote: post #28

When Ethanol started being used as car fuel in Brazil (in the 70's), there were not life-threatening additives on it, so of course some people would use it to mix with drinks. The practice only stopped in the late 80's when there was a supply crisis and Brazil had to import methanol and the TV started reporting cases of people going blind due to severe methanol poisoning.

Methanol is a biproduct of fermentation, and will be part of the destillate if not done carefully. I doubt that ethanol used in car and torpedo fuel will go through the same quality control than drinking alcohol.

This is why I've written severe poisoning. It was never a healthy thing to do, but it took a case of "shit, people are actually going blind because of this" for it to stop.
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