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Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

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Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#41

Post by Guekka »

shae wrote: post #33
tetrisgm wrote: post #30

This project brilliantly points out that we are limited and shaped by how keys and layouts are presented to us. What I don’t understand is why not go all the way. Why not also change the concept of what’s needed to enter a character? It would make sense that keys aren’t the ideal affordance to express a key every time. Use a volume slider for a letter, use radio buttons, on/off toggles. What if I could draw the lette…

We're also limited and shaped by keyboards. Why only one letter per finger? The datahand does five! Why are key switches only press? What about analog partial key press? There are Hall effect keyboard switches that do that, I want to try some. What about finger twist for input? I don't think anything exists? Would that be a volume knob on a key switch?

The CharaChorder [1] is one attempt to give a completely different shape to input methods

[1] : https://www.charachorder.com

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#42

Post by animal531 »

jen729w wrote: post #13

I learned recently that there are way, way more alt-layouts than the ones you've heard of: Dvorak & Colemak. Not only that, people just change them to suit their needs! They use things like Hands Down [0] as a guide , and make up their own layout. Wild. [0]: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown

Yeah when I was a 20 or so and just started working I taught myself Dvorak for a while, but realized how bad it was for coding in C. So I made my own C language one as well.

Of course you still have to type text and at the time you couldn't easily switch between different layouts, so after a time I got bored of it and gave up.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#43

Post by penteract »

twnettytwo wrote: post #36
qrobit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be 24 if all digits are distinct It actually drops from 10^4=10000 to 4^4=256 combinations

If they aren't distinct, you wouldn't have 4 clean buttons, but just 3 - in which case we also know the repeating digit repeats exactly once and we get 12x3 (36) possible combinations. With two clean buttons, it's 6 (if both repeat) + 4 (if only one repeats) = 10 and if there's 1 that's just one, and a terrible password.

With 2 clean buttons, there are 4x2 ways for only 1 to repeat, giving 14 combinations in total.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#44

Post by lawn »

oniony wrote: post #38
lawn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made my own layouts[0][1] and I'd say the many variants of Hands Down are probably the best example of a layout that's been developed in a thoughtful manner. [0]: https://www.jonashietala.se/series/t-34/ [1]: https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2024/11/26/the_current_cybe...

Would you say they are hands down the best?

:)

(I do believe that the best for you is a custom layout.)

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#45

Post by smartmic »

jen729w wrote: post #13

I learned recently that there are way, way more alt-layouts than the ones you've heard of: Dvorak & Colemak. Not only that, people just change them to suit their needs! They use things like Hands Down [0] as a guide , and make up their own layout. Wild. [0]: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown

For those who type on German keyboards or in German, there are a number of layouts that have evolved around the Neo 2 layout [1]. The main driving force is ergonomics, but since not everyone works the same way, many variants have emerged (and still do) [2]. Interesting is the craftsmanship, including customized programs to optimize the layouts [3].

[1] https://www.neo-layout.org/Layouts/

[2] https://maximilian-schillinger.de/keyboard-layouts-neo-adnw-...

[3] https://hg.sr.ht/~arnebab/evolve-keyboard-layout

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#48

Post by flir »

willwade wrote: post #14
Lemaxoxo wrote: post #7

Nice! I wrote about something similar for rectangular layouts: https://maxhalford.github.io/blog/dynamic-on-screen-keyboard...

thats wonderful. id like that to not change the order of the letters - but change the highlight order. Do a round 1 of frequency order first (just do first say 6 letters) then do a round 2 which is standard order.. i probably am not making much sense. Look at where I'm coming from in the world of Assistive Tech - https://docs.acecentre.org.uk/products/echo (go to around 5 min mark in the vide)

How about a backlit keyboard, and if the next letter is probably a vowel, only the vowels are lit?

I'd be quite interested in trying that. Maybe as a learning aid. But if you get your typing speed up, I can see it being visually very noisy.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#49

Post by Terr_ »

Modified3019 wrote: post #22
stoneman24 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this is an attempt to stop the “clean key” problem. Security system keypads (especially outdoor ones) tend not to be cleaned, so as time passes, it is easy to spot the dirty keys. Dirty keys are not being pressed and are therefore not in the passcode. So look for the clean keys and try combinations from there. In a 4 digit (0-9) keypad, knowing the clean numbers drops the possible codes from 9999 to 24 (…

Interesting. This would also stop keypress extraction via analyzing audio.

Hmm... It may still be vulnerable if:

1. You have lots of spy-data samples that reveal which physical key is pressed (perhaps they sound different) and the precise timing of those strikes, but you don't know what scrambled numbers were actually being shown. (And it's always the same code.)

2. The trick is that users take longer to press a number when it's displayed far away from its "normal" position, because they had to seek longer to find it.

3. This means you can infer the true numbers based on how quickly or slowly presses happen versus which physical key is struck.

For a simple example, assume a two-digit code where there are nine keys. If the fastest first press is always the top left corner, and the fastest second press is always the middle, we can guess the code is either 15 or a 75, depending on if the user is accustomed to phones or keyboard numpads.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#50

Post by eviks »

jen729w wrote: post #13

I learned recently that there are way, way more alt-layouts than the ones you've heard of: Dvorak & Colemak. Not only that, people just change them to suit their needs! They use things like Hands Down [0] as a guide , and make up their own layout. Wild. [0]: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown

Very nice website with many solid principles! Though one big flaw in all the designs I've seen is that they rely on bad data - text corpus that is the output of human editing efforts, not the input.

So all those "0.00001%" stats aren't as precise as they seem, and you still see the frequently used backspace/enter in the awful pinky position despite the official philosophy of "Hands Down is easy on the pinkies"

Have you seen any design that is based on actual human input?

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