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Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

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Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#31

Post by lawn »

jen729w wrote: post #13

I learned recently that there are way, way more alt-layouts than the ones you've heard of: Dvorak & Colemak. Not only that, people just change them to suit their needs! They use things like Hands Down [0] as a guide , and make up their own layout. Wild. [0]: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown

I've made my own layouts[0][1] and I'd say the many variants of Hands Down are probably the best example of a layout that's been developed in a thoughtful manner.

[0]: https://www.jonashietala.se/series/t-34/

[1]: https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2024/11/26/the_current_cybe...

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#32

Post by debugnik »

zkry wrote: post #20
raister wrote: post #10

Too bad this github has latest changes 5 years ago, I wonder what they could update with LLMs, etc.

My guess would be not much. LLMs are pretty useless concerning anything novel. Maybe an LLM could update the docstrings?

I'm assuming they meant replacing the markov model with a modern language model, not having an LLM magically improve the repo.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#33

Post by shae »

tetrisgm wrote: post #30

This project brilliantly points out that we are limited and shaped by how keys and layouts are presented to us. What I don’t understand is why not go all the way. Why not also change the concept of what’s needed to enter a character? It would make sense that keys aren’t the ideal affordance to express a key every time. Use a volume slider for a letter, use radio buttons, on/off toggles. What if I could draw the lette…

We're also limited and shaped by keyboards. Why only one letter per finger? The datahand does five!

Why are key switches only press?

What about analog partial key press? There are Hall effect keyboard switches that do that, I want to try some.

What about finger twist for input? I don't think anything exists? Would that be a volume knob on a key switch?

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#34

Post by internet_points »

thih9 wrote: post #25
subversive-dev wrote: post #9

I switch between English and German a lot. I wonder what that does to the algorithm.

There is an old joke that seems approproate: https://old.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/2o4rkq/english_to_be... > (…) In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. (…)

That joke is many decades older than the creation of the european union: http://www.i18nguy.com/twain.html (probably not written by Mark Twain, but seemingly first appeared when he was still around?)

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#35

Post by CaptainFever »

tetrisgm wrote: post #30

This project brilliantly points out that we are limited and shaped by how keys and layouts are presented to us. What I don’t understand is why not go all the way. Why not also change the concept of what’s needed to enter a character? It would make sense that keys aren’t the ideal affordance to express a key every time. Use a volume slider for a letter, use radio buttons, on/off toggles. What if I could draw the lette…

> What if I could draw the letter on my trackpad?

The Apple Newton did that!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton#Notes

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#36

Post by twnettytwo »

qrobit wrote: post #18
stoneman24 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this is an attempt to stop the “clean key” problem. Security system keypads (especially outdoor ones) tend not to be cleaned, so as time passes, it is easy to spot the dirty keys. Dirty keys are not being pressed and are therefore not in the passcode. So look for the clean keys and try combinations from there. In a 4 digit (0-9) keypad, knowing the clean numbers drops the possible codes from 9999 to 24 (…

It would be 24 if all digits are distinct It actually drops from 10^4=10000 to 4^4=256 combinations

If they aren't distinct, you wouldn't have 4 clean buttons, but just 3 - in which case we also know the repeating digit repeats exactly once and we get 12x3 (36) possible combinations. With two clean buttons, it's 6 (if both repeat) + 4 (if only one repeats) = 10 and if there's 1 that's just one, and a terrible password.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#37

Post by lawn »

atomer wrote: post #28

Took me 1 year to rewire my brain to switch from Qwerty to Dvorak (I struggled with from RSI for nearly 6 years) and nearly 2 years to gain full speed. It is hard, very hard for the brain. It is mentally tiring to rewire your brain like this and you will do your job at a much worse efficiency (forget pair programming for a while). You need new keyboard stickers also. Great job at making this idea but it is not practi…

> You need new keyboard stickers also.

You absolutely do not and it even hampers your ability to quickly learn to type efficiently if you rely on key legends or layout references.

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#38

Post by oniony »

lawn wrote: post #31
jen729w wrote: post #13

I learned recently that there are way, way more alt-layouts than the ones you've heard of: Dvorak & Colemak. Not only that, people just change them to suit their needs! They use things like Hands Down [0] as a guide , and make up their own layout. Wild. [0]: https://sites.google.com/alanreiser.com/handsdown

I've made my own layouts[0][1] and I'd say the many variants of Hands Down are probably the best example of a layout that's been developed in a thoughtful manner. [0]: https://www.jonashietala.se/series/t-34/ [1]: https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2024/11/26/the_current_cybe...

Would you say they are hands down the best?

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#39

Post by karencarits »

qrobit wrote: post #18
stoneman24 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this is an attempt to stop the “clean key” problem. Security system keypads (especially outdoor ones) tend not to be cleaned, so as time passes, it is easy to spot the dirty keys. Dirty keys are not being pressed and are therefore not in the passcode. So look for the clean keys and try combinations from there. In a 4 digit (0-9) keypad, knowing the clean numbers drops the possible codes from 9999 to 24 (…

It would be 24 if all digits are distinct It actually drops from 10^4=10000 to 4^4=256 combinations

I guess you would be able to count the number of clean keys and thus know both the number of distinct digits and the digits (but not the order nor which digit that's repeated)

Re: Markov Keyboard: keyboard layout that changes by Markov frequency (2019)

#40

Post by lazide »

shae wrote: post #19
mungoman2 wrote: post #4

This is not a bad idea. It's not dissimilar from an autocomplete engine. If reset per word and using a static probability table it will work its way into muscle memory. In practice fingers will only need to leave the home row for some initial letters.

What letter is a good start if you do a reset at every word boundary? Maybe whatever letter is most common?

E I guess?
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