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Updates to H-1B

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Re: Updates to H-1B

#361

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #298
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

> A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. While I tend to agree, this is a bit of a straw man. You can have tons of people looking for work who aren't qualified for the job - which is (I think) the FAANG argu…

FAANG companies have been laying people off at the moment, so it doesn't seem they are exactly suffering from a lack of workers. Until a year or so ago some of these companies were hiring people without any real work for them, just to deprive their competitors of talent.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#362

Post by WaitWaitWha »

snakeyjake wrote: post #342
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

I understand your struggle. I have worked with US and non-US orgs that are in similar boat.

In my experience this is often and at least in part a self-inflicted wound. As you describe your side of the business, it should not restricted, but it is. Maybe? Not enough detail to be certain.

What I see time and time again is business not willing to implement proper DLP, labeling and isolation of restricted things. Instead, they just throw everything into a single bucket, because it is quicker, faster, some of the risk and compliance is shifted to third party, and initially cheaper.

In short, a US, UK, Aus company that does government contracts will just force everyone into NOFORN, on-prem requirements (because DFARS, CMMC, CE+, Essential 8, or whatever). It is way quicker to do this for entire company than actually label data, isolate environment and resources, and so on.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#363

Post by ivalm »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

We don’t support h1b, of the last 3000 applicants we had only 1 was qualified. It’s super hard to hire strong swe.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#364

Post by closeparen »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #337
silisili wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this in theory, but in practice... I've worked directly with probably 50 or so H1B folks in my career. I can only think of a few I'd call exceptional. Just like Americans, most were a mixed bag from good to terrible. So the idea and argument of best of the best is sound, but it's definitely not being used solely that way.

The idea of 'best of the best' relies on the assumption that it is measurable which history has shown that it is not.

I mean, this is basic VC logic: because the returns are power law distributed, and it's very hard to know in advance which ones are going to hit, you should probably invest at least a little bit in anyone who seems basically plausible. Imagine having denied a visa to Sergey Brin!

Re: Updates to H-1B

#366

Post by cherryteastain »

BurningFrog wrote: post #223
Spivak wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this whole issue could be solved short order if we agreed that not being able to find qualified applicants at a given fixed price does not a shortage make. It's the same with the "fast food shortage," I bet the shortage would dry up real fast at $50/hr so all we're really doing is haggling over price. If in order to hire a H1-B at a salary of x you had to offer US workers 2x with say a $100k floor on x th…

On a market with free pricing there are , pretty much by definition, no shortages or surpluses. Instead prices go up or down until supply and demand meet. So talking about "shortages" in this context doesn't really make sense to me. Yet that's the terminology in this field, and the resulting confusion is unavoidable.

> On a market with free pricing there are, pretty much by definition, no shortages or surpluses.

Remember the "chip shortage" all throughout the pandemic? It's not like the whole world switched to a Soviet style command economy between 2020 and 2022 yet we still had it.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#367

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

orochimaaru wrote: post #352
lupusreal wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm more inclined to believe that H1B workers have other benefits to employers such as longer tenure due to the restrictions of moving jobs. That is a financial motive. Companies don't want to pay the kind of compensation which would induce employees to be loyal to the company, and so they use H1B quasi-indentured servitude as a cheaper alternative.

I’ve been on an H1B before, a long time back. Most companies do not want to deal with your immigration issues. Bigger enterprises have the resources. But the moment you get smaller, there isn’t a whole lot of patience or energy for that. As an H1B I May have made marginally less than my peers who were not immigrationally challenged. But as promotions picked up I think that wasn’t an issue anymore. The one thing I sti…

This last point is a big one.

I've seen more than one shop that would use contract houses as a way to 'paper over' their internal turnover issues.

After all, even if the internal resource at the body shop asks for and gets a transfer, they've got another body in to finish the contract.

Plus the fringe benefits. That h1b is a sword of damocles, contractor will work 6/10+ even if the main shop is doing 45 on average for engineers.

Which, doesn't get you better code typically, but it let's suits say people are working long hours to get the task done.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#368

Post by geertj »

snakeyjake wrote: post #342
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

My employer cannot hire H-1Bs. You must be a US citizen to work for my company. No "US Persons" (visa holders) or foreigners allowed. You have to be eligible for a Secret security clearance. You don't have to get one if you don't want to as there is usually plenty of uncleared work to go around, but you have to be eligible in case that goes away and we need to put you in for a clearance. We cannot find qualified appl…

Why linear algebra? Honest question, i have not seen this as a specific requirement before.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#369

Post by hector_vasquez »

crmd wrote: post #68

It’s never been clear to me why this program exists in the first place, other than to put downward pressure on US STEM wages. What am I missing?

Put simply: It is in the national interest to have the world's most talented technologists here. It is yet more in the national interest that they work here, for us, and not for our enemies. One of the best ways we can compete with China is to attract their best and brightest with our free society and high wages.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#370

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

cherryteastain wrote: post #366
BurningFrog wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a market with free pricing there are , pretty much by definition, no shortages or surpluses. Instead prices go up or down until supply and demand meet. So talking about "shortages" in this context doesn't really make sense to me. Yet that's the terminology in this field, and the resulting confusion is unavoidable.

> On a market with free pricing there are, pretty much by definition, no shortages or surpluses. Remember the "chip shortage" all throughout the pandemic? It's not like the whole world switched to a Soviet style command economy between 2020 and 2022 yet we still had it.

"Free market" folks tend to ignore the ladder-pulls and existing regulations that make it a non-free market.
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