Updates to H-1B • Hacker News Board

Re: Updates to H-1B

#221

Post by s1artibartfast » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:23 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #176

s1artibartfast wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mixing up purpose and effect. The purpose is to provide more and cheaper STEM workers. The effect is downward pressure on wages. Phrased differently, the goal is to help industry, not hurt workers. Hurting some workers is an acceptable cost, not the goal. One idea is that having a thriving industrial ecosystem helps those same workers more than the downward pressure.

> phrased differently, the goal is to help industry, not hurt workers. hurting some workers is an acceptable cost, not the goal. The phrase "help industry" has many dimensions. The simplest of course is that by increasing labor supply and suppressing wages it increases profit margins, rewarding shareholders. Another important function is that by having more workers overall in the US, it increases the productivity of…

I dont think there long term impacts are so clear or cynical. the question is less about productivity, but network effect, number of jobs, and quality of jobs.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#222

Post by rtpg » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:24 PM UTC

dingnuts wrote: post #217

toomuchtodo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shortage of applicants willing to work at what companies want to pay. If it is taking more than 30-60 days for workers to find a role, there are enough workers domestically.

> There is a shortage of applicants willing to work at what companies want to pay Translation: companies would rather have underpaid immigrants as indentured servants to exploit than Americans who can demand higher wages

A problem solved if visas are not associated to employers, because then an employer couldn’t hold onto the employee like this.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#223

Post by BurningFrog » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:24 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #189

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

I feel like this whole issue could be solved short order if we agreed that not being able to find qualified applicants at a given fixed price does not a shortage make. It's the same with the "fast food shortage," I bet the shortage would dry up real fast at $50/hr so all we're really doing is haggling over price. If in order to hire a H1-B at a salary of x you had to offer US workers 2x with say a $100k floor on x th…

On a market with free pricing there are, pretty much by definition, no shortages or surpluses.

Instead prices go up or down until supply and demand meet.

So talking about "shortages" in this context doesn't really make sense to me. Yet that's the terminology in this field, and the resulting confusion is unavoidable.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#224

Post by BeetleB » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:25 PM UTC

memtet wrote: post #151

BeetleB wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is one of the few STEM fields where one can get a fantastic job with just a Bachelor's. In most other engineering fields, a MS gives you a significant boost, and a PhD may do so as well. The reality is that in most of those fields, few Americans get an MS/PhD. Go to a typical engineering department and you'll often see the majority of advanced degree students are foreigners. So it's a question of: Do we want…

Ooh yes, let's address next how US top universities are all profit machines incentivized to take as many foreigners as possible, driving up the tuition they can charge so US citizens can't afford to get degrees. Let's do talk about how if you get a part time job to be able to pay for college then they yank your financial aid.

While foreigners definitely are a cash cow, I think you'll find in STEM fields most foreign PhD students are not paying tuition, but are instead funded by US grants.

As for the cost of tuition, there are many, many reasons, and I suspect if you did a PCA, you'll find "raising tuition to milk foreigners" to be of minimal impact.

In my state, for example, a local university publicized their finances going back decades, and the increase in tuition has been mirrored by a drop in state support per student. Overall the university is not making more money per student than they were 30 years ago - the only thing that changed is the entity making the payments.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#225

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:27 PM UTC

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #11

toast0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people get upset that someone on a 'non-immigrant' 'temporary employment' visa can apply for permanent residency, although that is allowed by the H1-B program. Otherwise, one could immigrate through a different visa; there are some employment visas that are explicitly intended for those with intent to immigrate. Or like a family or lottery visa, I guess. I think it's possible to have a permanent residency applic…

It takes around 20+ years to go from H1b to permanent visa/green card. In the meantime your kids born in US have grown up, graduated, you have a house and everything could be yanked at the border when you are travelling. Meanwhile vast majority of them pay into taxes and social security and leave the US and never see a dime of that money. Immigrants are the easiest group to exploit by everyone because they have no vo…

> your kids born in US have grown up

And now even their citizenship is threatened.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#226

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:29 PM UTC

wooque wrote: post #108

ziddoap wrote: post #19

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/12/18/2024-29... The tweet is a super brief summary, reproduced below. Founders can self petition (& spouses can work) - Own >50% of the entity, or have majority voting rights Roles tied to research institutions cap-exempt - Organizations where fundamental research is a key activity now qualify - Startups can hire researchers (AI, health, hardware) year-round Students ge…

> Founders can self petition Wait, so I can just open LLC and get H1B visa for it? There have to be conditions and limitations, otherwise it will be misused.

[deleted]

Re: Updates to H-1B

#227

Post by strongpigeon » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:29 PM UTC

PessimalDecimal wrote: post #203

breadwinner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US tech exports in 2018 was $338 billion. Tech is our biggest export by far. Think of the US tech industry as a siphon that sucks in wealth from foreign countries. Would you want to make that siphon bigger or smaller? If you want to make that siphon bigger — and more competitive — how would you do it? By limiting the people that can work in tech to whoever companies can hire locally, or by bringing in the smartest pe…

Does "The US" siphon that money off? Or Meta, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. siphon that money off? And where and to whom does it go from there? The major benefit of reducing or eliminating the H1B visa program is that those companies can continue to do well, and Americans can do well along with them.

Restricting or eliminating the H1B visas will cause these companies to hire more in oversea offices. Consulting companies however are a whole other deal.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#228

Post by Hilift » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:30 PM UTC

kqgnkqgn wrote: post #120

Seem like sensible changes, though more is still needed. Requiring H1B holders to leave the country to renew paperwork is an insane anachronism. The per-country caps also seem like a throwback to the early 1900's era immigration exclusion policies. Re: the concerns over "immigrants taking our jobs!". As a native-born American working in a large tech company today - the threat is very clearly not from H1B's and other…

> leave the country to renew paperwork is an insane anachronism

Not really. This is really Customs and Border Patrol/Immigration way of saying, you can always do the default/what everyone else does. You can leave and return six months of the year. The key is leave (which they do), they are already declared non-immigrant, and are self-sufficient.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#229

Post by aylmao » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:30 PM UTC

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

I wonder if this shortage has to do with the recent strong swing back to in-office work

Re: Updates to H-1B

#230

Post by cyberax » Wed, Dec 18, 2024, 8:31 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #194

pockmarked19 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why would you get downvoted for that? That’s the simple truth. They do that for all types of visas. My mother had to do it, until she finally (reluctantly) became a US citizen, and she lived here, most of her life. I think she had long-term visas, though. I only remember her doing it a couple of times. I think I went with her, on one of the trips.

This is more complicated than that. H1B is a visa and a status.

As long as you have a valid H1b status, you can stay in the US indefinitely. Having a physical visa in your passport is optional, you only need it when you want to cross back into the US.