FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#131

Post by ghaff » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:27 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #46

perfectstorm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a reverse IP lookup should give you a good estimate and you can always ask the user to enter their address for more accurate price.

Nope. I hate when website use IP for anything, especially language selection. I travel all the time as well as use VPNs for work, and the idea that my IP represents anything other than what network I’m connecting from is just lazy UX.

Yeah, I see a lot of advice on here that websites should make some guesses and you can always correct them later if it turns out they're wrong.

That seems like terrible advice. Oh, the price is $X. And once you've entered all your info "just kidding." I'd much rather know there are some things not included up-front if they're not reasonably factored in.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#132

Post by m463 » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:27 PM UTC

stonemetal12 wrote: post #84

legitster wrote: post #11

Seems like a no brainer. Can they tackle sales tax next?

Move to Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire or Oregon. No sales tax.

most states have some trick.

I think you have to look at it wholistically:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Median_h...

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#133

Post by currymj » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:27 PM UTC

OptionOfT wrote: post #106

I'd be interested to see whether a movie theater is considered an event. Our local one charges a convenience fee when buying online because ... they can? I wish they banned all mandatory add-ons. If I don't have the choice it should be part of the base price. The touristic railroad near me advertises a price, and then slaps on a mandatory Fuel Surcharge and Historic Preservation Fee. Excuse me? How can I compare what…

when you buy a ticket online, you are actually buying an option on the ticket, because you can go in and refund it at any time before the movie starts. the “convenience fee” is the option premium.

it would be fairer if this were opt-in. Some e commerce sites now allow you to pay a few extra dollars to have free returns, something similar would work for movies.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#134

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

websap wrote: post #105

crazygringo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about sales taxes, they can't until you input your shipping address. Because they depend on where you live. Nobody's trying to fool you by not including sales taxes. There's just no way to show them in advance, unless you want to start typing your address and zip code into every shopping website before you even browse.

Yes, because my IP address doesn't give them a way to calculate tentative taxes? My IP can be used to serve me ads, but not serve me actually relevant information? There's a very small % of traffic that actually uses VPNs

[deleted]

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#135

Post by bluGill » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

user3939382 wrote: post #109

Hopefully this does away with the fraudulent “cleaning fee” when you book a hotel for $200 and then get a charge for $450.

Maybe. If they document how dirty the room was after you leave, and how clean it was before hand they can get away with this. Generally smoke smell is the only thing they would bother doing this for though. If you just leave the normal mess behind they shouldn't be charging extra.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#136

Post by insane_dreamer » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #11

Seems like a no brainer. Can they tackle sales tax next?

That's a state matter so not really within the FTC's jurisdiction I think.

Luckily some states (OR, AK, others) don't have a sales tax.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#137

Post by tokioyoyo » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #113

websap wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because my IP address doesn't give them a way to calculate tentative taxes? My IP can be used to serve me ads, but not serve me actually relevant information? There's a very small % of traffic that actually uses VPNs

Correct, it doesn't. IP geolocation is nowhere near precise enough. Remember, sales tax isn't something big like state-level. It's literally town -level, including tiny towns. Two sides of the same street can have a different sales tax. Not to mention all the extra rules, such as individual clothing items under $110 being exempt in New York.

It somehow works almost anywhere outside of NA? It's really not a crazy concept - estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address". The problem is, that genuinely negatively affect the sales because people see the true price of things.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#138

Post by sofixa » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #91

sofixa wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The price on the tag, is exactly what you pay (same with services, like hotels). That's the norm, not the exception, in developed countries.

No -- it's the norm in countries that have a single uniform VAT. It's obviously not the norm in countries that have sales taxes which vary by locality. Whether a country is "developed" or not has nothing to do with it. The vast majority of countries in Africa have a VAT, while the world's richest country has a sales tax.

> It's obviously not the norm in countries that have sales taxes which vary by locality

Why not? If each store or restaurant or theatre or whatever in each locality know what price to bill you, they know the applicable price to show you upfront.

> Whether a country is "developed" or not has nothing to do with it. The vast majority of countries in Africa have a VAT, while the world's richest country has a sales tax.

The relevance of developed or not is how much of the economy is informal or includes a part of negotiation.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#139

Post by quotemstr » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

spockz wrote: post #15

Im all for this. I’m worried though that now the junk fees will just be added to the normal price without ultimately changing anything.

Market actors are allowed to charge whatever they want. Price controls are super bad. It's not the role of the state to mandate a specific price. It is the role of the state to make sure prices are fair and transparent. Deception cannot be tolerated in an efficient market.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#140

Post by breadwinner » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:28 PM UTC

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that?

Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait time is over 45 minutes. There is no call back option. Why should a consumer have to be on the phone for 45 minutes to cancel? (Typically they will drop the call after 45 minutes and you have to call again.) If you call Dish to sign up service the wait time is 0 minutes: they answer immediately. If you then tell that you're actually calling to cancel, they forward you to the cancellation number with the wait. This is an abusive business practice, and banning it should not be controversial.