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Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

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Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those less confident: U.S. (and German) automakers were absolutely sure that the Japanese would never be able to touch them. Then Koreans. Now Chinese. Now there are tariffs and more coming to save jobs. Betting against AI (or increasing automation, really) is a bet against not against robots, but against human ingenuity. Humans are the ones making progress, and we can work with toothpicks as levers. LLM's are ou…

One hundred per cent this. LLM pair programming is unbelievably fun, satisfying, and productive. Why type out the code when you can instead watch it being typed while thinking of and typing out/speaking the next thing you want. For those who enjoy typing, you could try to get a job dictating letters for lawyers, but something tells me that’s on the way out too.

Yeah I had my fair share of pride around typing super fast back in college, but the algorithms were super annoying to think through.

Nowadays I get wayyy more of a kick typing the most efficient Lego prompts in Claude.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing because I’m a senior and LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test, and it remains a waste of time. I am constantly surprised how prevalent this attitude is. ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? > LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test This is ego speaking.

> This is ego speaking. It absolutely isn't. I have yet to find an area where LLM-generated code solves the kinds of problems I work on more reliably, effectively, of efficiently than I do. I'm also not interested in spending my mental energy on code reviews for an uncomphrehending token-prediction golem, let alone finding or fixing bugs in the code it blindly generates. That's a waste of my time and a special kind o…

Comments like these make me wonder whether we live in the same worlds.

I'm a cursor user e.g. and Tab completion is by far the most powerful auto complete I've ever used.

There's scenarios where you can do some major refactors by simply asking (extract this table to its own component while using best react practices to avoid double renders) and it does so istantly. Refactor the tests for it? Again. Semi instant. Meanwhile monocole wielding "senior" is proudly copy pasting, creating files and fixing indentation as I move to the next task.

I don't expect LLMs to do the hard work, but to speed me up.

And people ignoring LLMs are simply slower and less productive.

It's a speed multiplier right now, not a substitute.

If you complain that you don't like the code, you're not understanding the tools nor you can use them, end of story.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#443

My anecdata shows people who have no/limited experience in software engineering are suddenly able to produce “software”. That is, code of limited engineering value. It technically works, but is a ultimately an unmaintainable, intractable Heath Robinson monstrosity. Coding LLMs will likely improve, but what will happen first: a good-at-engineering LLM; or a negative feedback cycle of training data being polluted with…

> is a ultimately an unmaintainable Does it need to be maintainable, if we can re-generate apps on the go with some sort of automated testing mechanism? I'm still on the fence with the LLM-generated apps debacle, but since I started forcing Cursor on myself, i'm writing significantly less code (75% less?) on my day-to-day job.

> if we can re-generate apps on the go with some sort of automated testing mechanism?

Ahh so once we solve the oracle problem and programming will become obsolete…

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing because I’m a senior and LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test, and it remains a waste of time. I am constantly surprised how prevalent this attitude is. ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? > LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test This is ego speaking.

>This is ego speaking. Very much so. These things are moving so quickly and agentic systems are already writing complete codebases. Give it a few years. No matter how 1337 you think you are, they are very likely to surpass you in 5-10 years.

> agentic systems are already writing complete codebases

Examples?

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#445

The last fairly technical career to get surprisingly and fully automated in the way this post displays concern about - trading. I spent a lot of time with traders in early '00's and then '10's when the automation was going full tilt. Common feedback I heard from these highly paid, highly technical, highly professional traders in a niche indusry running the world in its way was: - How complex the job was - How high a…

I like this comment, it is exceptionally insightful.

Any interesting question is "How is programming like trading securities?"

I believe an argument can be made that the bulk of what goes for "programming" today is simply hooking up existing pieces in ways that achieve a specific goal. When the goal can be adequately specified[1] the task of hooking up the pieces to achieve that goal is fairly mechanical. Just like the business of tracking trades in markets and extracting directional flow and then anticipating the flow by enough to make a profit is something trading algorithms can do.

What trading software has a hard time doing is coming up with new securities. What LLMs absolutely cannot do (yet?) is come up with novel mechanisms. To illustrate that, consider the idea that an LLM has been trained on every kind of car there is. If you ask it to design a plane it will fail. Train it on all cars and plans and ask it to design a boat, same problem. Train it on cars, planes, and boats and ask it to design a rocket, same problem.

The sad truth is that a lot of programming is 'done' , which is to say we have created lots of compilers, lots of editors, lots of tools, lots of word processors, lots of operating systems. Training an LLM on those things can put all of the mechanisms used in all of them into the model, and spitting out a variant is entirely within the capabilities of the LLM.

Thus the role of humans will continue to be to do the things that have not been done yet. No LLM can design a quantum computer, nor can it design a compiler that runs on a quantum computer. Those things haven't been "done" and they are not in the model. The other role of humans will continue to be 'taste.'

Taste, as defined as an aesthetic, something that you know when you see it. It is why for many, AI "art" stands out as having been created by AI, it has a synthetic aesthetic. And as one gets older it often becomes apparent that the tools are not what determines the quality of the output, it is the operator.

I watched Dan Silva do some amazing doodles with Deluxe Paint on the Amiga and I thought, "That's what I want to do!" and ran out and bought a copy and started doodling. My doodles looked like crap :-). The understanding that I would have to use the tool, find its strengths and weaknesses, and then express through it was clearly a lot more time consuming than "get the tool and go."

LLMs let people generate marginal code quickly. For so many jobs that is good enough. People who can generate really good code taking in constraints that the LLM can't model, is something that will remain the domain of humans until GAI is achieved[2]. So careers in things like real-time and embedded systems will probably still have a lot of humans involved, and systems where every single compute cycle needs to be extracted out of the engine is a priority, that will likely be dominated by humans too.

[1] Very early on there were papers on 'genetic' programming. Its a good thing to read them because they arrive at a singularly important point, "How do you define 'Which is better'?" For a solid, qualitative and testable metric for 'goodness' genetic algorithms out perform nearly everything. When the ability to specify 'goodness' is not there, genetic algorithms cannot out perform humans. What is more they cannot escape 'quality moats' where the solutions on the far side the moat are better than the solutions being explored but they cannot algorithmically get far enough into the 'bad' solutions to start climbing up the hill on the other side to the 'better' solutions.

[2] GAI being "Generalized Artificial Intelligence" which will have to have some way of modelling and integrating conceptual systems. Lots of things get better then (like self driving finally works), maybe even novel things. Until we get that though, LLMs won't play here.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#446

The last fairly technical career to get surprisingly and fully automated in the way this post displays concern about - trading. I spent a lot of time with traders in early '00's and then '10's when the automation was going full tilt. Common feedback I heard from these highly paid, highly technical, highly professional traders in a niche indusry running the world in its way was: - How complex the job was - How high a…

"See if you can match the above confidence from pre-automation traders with the comments displayed in this thread. You should plan for it aggressively, I certainly do."

Sounds like it was written by someone trying to keep any grasp on the fading reality of AI.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#447
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Bitcoin was released in what year? I still cannot use it for payments. No-code solutions exist since when? And still programmers work... I dont think all hyped techs are fads. For instance: we use SaaS now instead of installing software locally. This transition took the world by storm. But those tech that needs lots of ads, and lots of zealots, and make incredible promises: t…

> For instance: we use SaaS now instead of installing software locally. If anything, I feel like this argument works against you. If people are willing to replace locally installed software with shitty web "apps" that barely compare, why do you think they won't be willing to replace good programmers with LLMs doing a bad job simply because it's trendy?

SaaS has generally been better than the local apps it replaced, particularly when you factor in 'portability'.

I love local apps but it's undeniable that developers having to split their attention between platforms lowered quality by a lot. You're probably remembering the exemplars, not the bulk which half-worked and looked bad too

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#448
My solution has been to work with LLMs and being on the one side of the industry trying to replace the other. I switched focus fairly early on in the "AI hype" era mainly because I thought it looked like a lot of fun to play with LLMs. After a few years I realized I'm quite a bit ahead of my of my former coworkers that stayed still. I've worked on both the product end and closer to the hardware, and as more and more friends ask for help on problems I've realized I do in fact have a lot of understanding of this space.

A lot of people in this discussion seem to be misunderstanding the way the industry will change with LLMs. It's not a simple as "engineers will be automated away" in the same sense that we're a long way away uber drivers disappearing from self driving cars.

But the impact of LLMs on software is going to be much closer to the impact of the web and web development on native application development. People used to scoff at the idea that any serious company would be run from a web app. Today I would say the majority of software engineers are, directory or indirectly, building web-based products.

LLMs will make coding easier, but they also enable a wide range of novel solutions within software engineering itself. Today any engineer can launch a 0-shot classifier that's better performing than what would have taken a team of data scientists just a few years ago.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#449
post #23

I've been thinking about this a bunch and here's what I think will happen as cost of writing software approaches 0: 1. There will be way more software 2. Most people / companies will be able to opt out of predatory VC funded software and just spin up their own custom versions that do exactly what they want without having to worry about being spied on or rug pulled. I already do this with chrome extensions, with the h…

>3. The best software will be open source, since it's easier for LLMs to edit and is way more trustworthy than a random SaaS tool. It will also be way easier to customize to your liking

From working in a non-software place, I see the opposite occurring. Non-software management doesn't buy closed source software because they think it's 'better', they buy closed source software because there's a clear path of liability.

Who pays if the software messes up? Who takes the blame? LLMs make this even worse. Anthropic is not going to pay your business damages because the LLM produced bad code.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#450

The last fairly technical career to get surprisingly and fully automated in the way this post displays concern about - trading. I spent a lot of time with traders in early '00's and then '10's when the automation was going full tilt. Common feedback I heard from these highly paid, highly technical, highly professional traders in a niche indusry running the world in its way was: - How complex the job was - How high a…

> LLMs can pass CFA III.

Everyone cites these kind of examples as LLM beating some test or other as some kind of validation. It isn’t .

To me that just tells that the tests are poor, not the LLMs are good. Designing and curating a good test is hard and expensive.

Certifying and examination bodies often use knowledge as a proxy to understanding or reasoning or any critical thinking skills.they just need to filter enough people out, there is no competitive pressure to improve quality at all. Knowledge tests do that just as well and are cheaper.

Standardization is also hard to do correctly, common core is a classic example of how that changes incentives for both teachers and students . Goodhart's law also applies.

To me it is more often than not a function of poor test measurement practices rather than any great skill shown by the LLM.

Passing the CFA or the bar exam while daunting for humans by design does not teach you anything practicing law or accounting. Managing the books of a real company is nothing like what the textbook and exams teaches you .

—-

The best accountants or lawyers etc are not making partner because of their knowledge of the law and tax. They make money same as everyone else - networking and building customer relationships. As long as the certification bodies don’t flood the market they will do well which is what the test does.

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