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Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

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Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#381

Post by zdragnar »

ConspiracyFact wrote: post #325
hnthrowaway6543 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, this. the backlog of software that needs to be built is fucking enormous . you know what i'd do if AI made it so i could replace 10 devs with 8? use the 2 newly-freed up developers to work on some of the other 100000 things i need done

I'm casting about for project ideas. What are some things that you think need to be built but haven't?

Every company that builds software has dozens of things they want but can't prioritize because they're too busy building other things.

It's not about a discrete product or project, but continuous improvement upon that which already exists is what makes up most of the volume of "what would happen if we had more people".

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#382

Post by dbetteridge »

throwaway_43793 wrote: post #214
gspencley wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your customers don't care how your code smells, as long as it solves their problem and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Software is interesting because if you buy a refrigerator, even an inexpensive one, you have certain expectations as to its basic functions. If the compressor were to cut out periodically in unexpected ways, affecting your food safety, you would return it. But in software customers seem to be condit…

Code quality does not affect final product quality IMHO. I worked in companies with terrible code, that deployed on an over-engineered cloud provider using custom containers hacked with a nail and a screwdriver, but the product was excellent. Had bugs here and there, but worked and delivered what needs to be delivered. SWEs need to realize that code doesn't really matter. For 70 years we are debating the best archite…

It doesn't matter.. Until it does.

Having poor quality code makes refactoring for new features harder, it increases the time to ship and means bugs are harder to fix without side effects.

It also means changes have more side effects and are more likely to contain bugs.

For an MVP or a startup just running off seed funding? Go ham with LLMs and get something in front of your customers, but then when more money is available you need to prioritise making that early code better.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#384

Post by cloudking »

LLMs are tools, learn how to use them. You'll be more productive once you learn how to properly incorporate LLMs into your workflow, and maybe come up with some ideas to solve software problems with them along the way.

I wouldn't worry about being replaced by an LLM, I'd worry about falling behind and being replaced by a human augmented with an LLM.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#385

Post by Tadpole9181 »

latentsea wrote: post #313
janalsncm wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if seniors still do the last mile, that’s a significant reduction from the full commute they were paid for previously. Are you saying seniors should concede this?

No, I think there's cases in which if you can't do the last mile, you aren't entrusted to do the first either.

It's astounding that basically every response you give is just "it can't happen to me". The actual answer to the OP's question for you is a resounding: "nothing".

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#386

Post by 015a »

bdangubic wrote: post #353
015a wrote: post #343

There's no reality in the next twenty years where a non-technical individual is going to converse with a persistent agentic AI to produce a typical SaaS product and maintain it over a period of many years. I think we'll see stabs at this space, and I think we'll see some companies try to replace engineering teams wholesale, and these attempts will almost universally feel kinda sorta ok for the first N weeks, then nos…

Nicely said. > AI cannot replace people; AI augments people. Here’s where we slightly disagree. If AI augments people (100% does) it makes those people more productive (from my personal experience I am ballparking currently I am 40-45% more productive) and hence some people will get replaced. Plausibly in high-growth companies we’ll just all be more productive and will crank out 40-45% more products/features/… but in…

Directionally, I think that's certainly true for some professions. It is probably the case that it isn't true for software engineering. The biggest reason involves how software, as a business, involves a ton of problem space exploration and experimentation. Most businesses have an infinite appetite for software; there's always another idea, another feature they can sell, another expectation, another bug we can fix, or a performance problem to improve.

Tooling improvements leading to productivity boons ain't a new concept in software engineering. We don't code in assembly anymore, because writing JavaScript is more efficient. In fact, think on this: Which would you grade as a higher productivity boon, as a percentage: Using JavaScript over Assembly, or using AI to write JavaScript over hand-writing it?

Followup: If JavaScript was such a 10,000% productivity boon over assembly, to AI's paltry 40-45%: Why aren't we worried when new programming languages drop? I don't shiver in my boots when AWS announces a new service, or when Vercel drops a new open source framework.

At the end of the day: there's an infinite appetite for software, and someone has to wire it all up. AI is, itself, software. One thing all engineers should know by now is: Introducing new software only increases the need for the magicians who wrangle it, and AI is as subject to that law as JavaScript, the next expensive AWS service, or next useless Vercel open source project.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#387

Post by risyachka »

IshKebab wrote: post #98
rybosworld wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing because I’m a senior and LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test, and it remains a waste of time. I am constantly surprised how prevalent this attitude is. ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? > LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test This is ego speaking.

> Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? I definitely expect them to improve. But I also think the point at which they can actually replace a senior programmer is pretty much the exact point at which they can replace any knowledge worker, at which point western society (possibly all society) is in way deeper shit than just me being out of a job. > This is ego speaking. It definitely isn't. LLMs ar…

This.

When this moment becomes reality - the world economy will change a lot, all jobs and markets will shift.

And there won’t be any way to future proof your skills and they all will be irrelevant.

Right now many like to say “learn how to work with ai, it will be valuable “ . No, it won’t. Because even now it is absolutely easy to work with it, any developer can pick up ai in a week, and it will become easier and easier.

A better time spent is developing evergreen skills.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#388

Post by NorthTheRock »

nidnogg wrote: post #374
simianparrot wrote: post #80

Nothing because I’m a senior and LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test, and it remains a waste of time. I have a job at a place I love and get more people in my direct network and extended contacting me about work than ever before in my 20 year career. And finally I keep myself sharp by always making sure I challenge myself creatively. I’m not afraid to delve into areas to understand them that might look “…

LLMs are not necessarily a waste of time like you mention, as their application isn't limited to generating algorithms like you're used to. When you consider LLMs to be building blocks in bigger, more complex systems, their potential increases dramatically. That's where mid/senior engineers would chip in and add value to a company, in my point of view. There's also different infrastructure paradigms involved that hav…

> When you consider LLMs to be building blocks in bigger, more complex systems, their potential increases dramatically.

Do you have any examples of where/how that would work? It has seemed for me like lot of the hype is "they'll be good" with no further explanation.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#389

Post by 76SlashDolphin »

Bjorkbat wrote: post #186
rybosworld wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing because I’m a senior and LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test, and it remains a waste of time. I am constantly surprised how prevalent this attitude is. ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? > LLM’s never provide code that pass my sniff test This is ego speaking.

> I am constantly surprised how prevalent this attitude is. ChatGPT was only just released in 2022. Is there some expectation that these things won't improve? I mean, in a way, yeah. Last 10 years were basically one hype-cycle after another filled with lofty predictions that never quite panned out. Besides the fact that many of these predictions kind of fell short, there's also the perception that progress on these v…

The funny thing about 3D printers is that they're making a bit of a comeback. The early ones managed to get the capabilities right - you can print some really impressive things on the older Creality printers, but it required fiddling, several hours of building the bloody things, cogged extruders, manual bed leveling and all sorts of technical hurdles. A very motivated techy person will persevere and solve them, and will be rewarded with a very useful machine. The other 99.99% of people won't and will either drop it the moment there's an issue or will hear from others that they require a lot of fiddling and never buy one. If things ever get more complicated than "I see it on a website and I click a few buttons" (incl maintenance) then it's too complicated to gain mass adoption... which is exactly what newer 3D printers are doing - the Bambulabs A1 Mini is £170, prints like a champ, is fairly quiet, requires next to no setup, takes up way less space than the old Enders and needs almost no maintenance. It's almost grandma-proof. Oh, and to further entice your grandma to print, it comes with all sorts of useful knick-knacks that you can start printing immediately after setup. On the hype cycle curve I think 3D printers are almost out of their slump now that we have models that have ironed out the kinks.

But for VR I think we're still closer to the bottom of the curve - Meta and Valve need something to really sell the technology. The gamble for Valve was that it'd be Half Life: Alyx, and for Meta it was portable VR but the former is too techy to set up (and Half Life is already a nerdy IP) while Meta just doesn't have anything that can convince the average person to get a headset (despite me thinking it's a good value just as a Beat Saber machine). But they're getting there - I've convinced a few friends to get a Quest 3S just to practice piano with Virtuoso and I think it's those kinds of apps I hope we see more of that will bring VR out of the slump.

And then LLMs I think their hype cycle is a lot more elevated since even regular people use them extensively now. There will probably be a crash in terms of experimentation with them but I don't see people stopping their usage and I do see them becoming a lot more useful in the long term - how and when is difficult to predict at the top of the hype curve.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#390

Post by JamesBarney »

janalsncm wrote: post #263
thegrim33 wrote: post #71

I don't worry about it, because: 1) I believe we need true AGI to replace developers. 2) I don't believe LLMs are currently AGI or that if we just feed them more compute during training that they'll magically become AGI. 3) Even if we did invent AGI soon and replace developers, I wouldn't even really care, because the invention of AGI would be such an insanely impactful, world changing, event that who knows what the…

To replace all developers, we need AGI yes. To replace many developers? No. If one developer can do the same work as 5 could previously, unless the amount of work expands then 4 developers are going to be looking for a job. Therefore, unless you for some reason believe you will be in the shrinking portion that cannot be replaced I think the question deserves more attention than “nothing”.

I think not only is this possible, it's likely for two reasons.

1. A lot more projects get the green light when the price is 5x less, and a many more organizations can afford custom applications.

2. LLMs unlock large amounts of new applications. A lot more of the economy is now automatable with LLMs.

I think jr devs will see the biggest hit. If you're going to teach someone how to code, might as teach a domain expert. LLMs already code much better than almost all jr devs.

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