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UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

ofcom.org.uk

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Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#91

Post by foldr »

pjc50 wrote: post #88
foldr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have more than two parties then the winning party may have less than 50% of the votes. That's just how the math works out. Somewhat ironically, given your arguments, UK voters decisively rejected a plan to change the voting system to a more proportional one in a 2011 referendum: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternativ...

Yes, but: the winning party having less than 50% of the votes still feels incredibly undemocratic, as you get a situation where a majority of the voters picked a different choice. Proportional systems give an outcome where a majority of voters voted for at least one of the parties in the winning coalition . Coalitions become explicit rather than internal to parties. The internationalist/isolationist split in the Cons…

I would support a move to a more proportional system, but I think it's an exaggeration to describe the present system as 'incredibly undemocratic' (especially given that a clear majority of the voting population chose to keep this system in a democratic referendum not very long ago). There's plenty to criticise about the UK at present, but HN sometimes goes off the rails on this topic. I suspect that a post describing the USA as 'incredibly undemocratic' would get shorter shrift – even though the electoral college is arguably an order of magnitude more bonkers than the UK system.

Edit: I'd also add that the UK is astonishingly democratic in some respects. It is remarkable that Brexit was implemented merely because a majority voted for it. There are few countries where such important decisions of national policy would be put to a popular referendum in this way and then implemented faithfully. (I was very firmly opposed to Brexit, FWIW.)

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#92

Post by EpicQuest_246 »

nottorp wrote: post #63
EpicQuest_246 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which kills any sort of online anonymity as all social media posts will be directly linked to your ID. This will make it much easier to go after anyone that is a dissident in the UK. Many these awful laws such as one being discussed are sold to us under the guise of protecting the children. The last time I checked 7 people a day were being prosecuted for speech related crimes in the UK (and I checked a while ago). Pa…

> This will make it much easier to go after anyone that is a dissident in the UK. No need to go there. What about commenting anonymously on your work place?

It wouldn't be anonymous then if it was in my work place.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#93

Post by nottorp »

EpicQuest_246 wrote: post #92
nottorp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will make it much easier to go after anyone that is a dissident in the UK. No need to go there. What about commenting anonymously on your work place?

It wouldn't be anonymous then if it was in my work place.

Yes, so no one will comment on their employer because they'd risk trouble.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#94

Post by [deleted] »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #81
frikskit wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you want to go, I’m curious?! I wonder what panacea you see out there that’s less authoritarian and where you could keep your “high earner” social status. It’s a shame that Britain gave one of its “high earner” jobs to someone who’d enjoy seeing it collapse.

> I wonder what panacea you see out there that’s less authoritarian and where you could keep your “high earner” social status. Throw a dart on a world map and chances are you'll land somewhere suitable. Any other first world country would be better for example. > It’s a shame that Britain gave one of its “high earner” jobs to someone who’d enjoy seeing it collapse. Britain didn't give me anything. They were unable to…

[deleted]

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#95

Post by EpicQuest_246 »

nottorp wrote: post #93
EpicQuest_246 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be anonymous then if it was in my work place.

Yes, so no one will comment on their employer because they'd risk trouble.

There are so many issues with stripping anonymity. TBH I will probably end up 100% either using a VPN or the darknet.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#96

Post by frikskit »

EpicQuest_246 wrote: post #90
cjs_ac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is very difficult to see what your argument is here. My arguments are: * free speech is not a cornerstone of our national identity (despite John Milton's attempts to make it one); * social media causes genuine harm (but does not do so inherently); * the Act imposes a legal responsibility on social media platforms to limit harm caused by those platforms; and * while members of the HN community may have a personal…

Social media does not cause harm in of itself. People can use social media in a way that can be harmful, but you can say that about absolutely anything. Plenty of people that are not tech people manage to use social media to promote themselves, their business etc. People use it as a place of business. It is a mixed bag, like most things are. You are (like the government) pre-supposing that is the case and basing your…

‘No section 230’ might be the reason why there’s no social media tech scene. I’d like to think that HN cares about things other than social media too - maybe Brits could do something that actually adds some value.

But in any case, original point also brings up the question: why is the UK allowing foreign companies to violate laws that it would prosecute British businesses for violating?

If you allow a foreign domiciled business to break laws in your country, then how the heck do you expect to ever have domestic industry? It’s strictly less risky to always be foreign domiciled.

This bill aims to stop that regulatory arbitrage and as such is hopefully a leveling of the playing field for the UK tech scene.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#97

Post by EpicQuest_246 »

frikskit wrote: post #96
EpicQuest_246 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media does not cause harm in of itself. People can use social media in a way that can be harmful, but you can say that about absolutely anything. Plenty of people that are not tech people manage to use social media to promote themselves, their business etc. People use it as a place of business. It is a mixed bag, like most things are. You are (like the government) pre-supposing that is the case and basing your…

‘No section 230’ might be the reason why there’s no social media tech scene. I’d like to think that HN cares about things other than social media too - maybe Brits could do something that actually adds some value. But in any case, original point also brings up the question: why is the UK allowing foreign companies to violate laws that it would prosecute British businesses for violating? If you allow a foreign domicil…

I don't really understand how many people on here (I've been lurking for a while), essentially pretend everything is backwards. You don't level the playing field by making it more difficult to do business, you make it easier.

BTW, I get btw a threat letter from another UK quango (I forget the name), which basically says "if you have any user data you need to pay us £60 a year". Yes you need to pay a levy for a database in the UK. It is basically a TV license for a database. I did work as a freelancer in the UK (made impossible now because of IR-35 regulation) and have a dormant company because freelance/contract is dead, so I have to inform them I don't have user data. It is just another thing to worry about when creating an online app.

> But in any case, original point also brings up the question: why is the UK allowing foreign companies to violate laws that it would prosecute British businesses for violating?

Because then we don't have any alternatives and people already use it. I also don't think the laws should exist in the first place, so I don't care if a US company is violating them.

I would love the UK to actually require IP blocks of twitter/Facebook etc, because it might actually force people to think about the issues.

> If you allow a foreign domiciled business to break laws in your country, then how the heck do you expect to ever have domestic industry? It’s strictly less risky to always be foreign domiciled.

You don't make it more difficult to do business. Many of the US tech successes were people starting up in a garage. The UK micro business did extremely well (until PC/Macs came on the scene) and that had almost no regulation or gov interference (other than standard stuff for electronics).

> This bill aims to stop that regulatory arbitrage and as such is hopefully a leveling of the playing field for the UK tech scene.

No. It is to try to censor the internet. It been going in this direction for ages. I am quite honestly fed up of people telling me that it is nothing to worry about. The UK politicians complained about replies to their tweets, after one of their colleagues had been stabbed to death. I found it honestly sickening. There is no crisis they won't use as an opportunity.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#98

Post by alexandercannon »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #31
collyw wrote: post #6

The steady march towards authoritarianism continues. Is there any way that we can overwhelm them?

> Is there any way that we can overwhelm them? Yes: leave the UK. I and a lot of high earners are thinking about leaving the UK because it's simply a punishing country where you have high taxes like others in Europe but nothing to show for them. It's also by far the most authoritarian western country, as exemplified by measures like this one. The way to overwhelm them is to sink the UK by having most of the people it…

I left the UK earlier this year and went to the USA for exactly this reason. Sick of giving half my paycheque to not receive anything in return except more boot on my neck. Mother freedom etc etc

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#99

Post by EpicQuest_246 »

frikskit wrote: post #49
benfrain wrote: post #25

I’d like to see all social media sites require proper age verification, much like any gambling sites in the UK have to. No under 18 needs social media. Feel, especially for children, they are a net negative.

Agree with you. I’m not sure why people believe that only the physical world and not the virtual one should have some amount of regulation. I think a good portion of HN has drunk the kool aid of their employers/industry and is almost religiously unwilling to consider an alternative viewpoint without resorting to shouting ‘fascist’ and ‘1984’. Maybe someone needs to write a book called 2024 about the hellscape we curr…

The online communities don't exist within the borders of a nation state. They have their own social norms and rules. You can see this on forums, message boards, online games etc. Therefore a nation state trying to enforce its will on those communities is completely asinine.

I don't like that it that American companies enforces it language policing on UK residents, I also don't like that fact that the UK wants to force it language policing world wide (the UK state acts as if it has an empire).

The reason people are unwilling to consider an alternative viewpoint, is that in the past they have been more moderate and what has happened has been a complete erosion of civil liberties under the guise of "stopping the terrorists". I was arguing the same thing I am arguing essentially over 20 years ago.

Ironically many of those groups that we went to war to stop (Al-queda/ISIS) are now being presented as moderate because foreign policy has shifted again.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#100

Post by EpicQuest_246 »

alexandercannon wrote: post #98
iLoveOncall wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any way that we can overwhelm them? Yes: leave the UK. I and a lot of high earners are thinking about leaving the UK because it's simply a punishing country where you have high taxes like others in Europe but nothing to show for them. It's also by far the most authoritarian western country, as exemplified by measures like this one. The way to overwhelm them is to sink the UK by having most of the people it…

I left the UK earlier this year and went to the USA for exactly this reason. Sick of giving half my paycheque to not receive anything in return except more boot on my neck. Mother freedom etc etc

I left and came back because I was homesick. I deeply regret it. Thinking of moving away again but I miss my family enough as it is living in another part of the country. I was hoping for some positive change (even though unlikely), but that isn’t going to happen.
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