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Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

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Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#21
I think there's been a lot of fear-mongering on this topic and "the inevitable LLM take over" is not as inevitable as it might seem, perhaps depending on your definition of "take over."

I have personally used LLMs in my job to write boilerplate code, write tests, make mass renaming changes that were previously tedious to do without a lot of grep/sed-fu, etc. For these types of tasks, LLMs are already miles ahead of what I was doing before (do it myself by hand, or have a junior engineer do it and get annoyed/burnt out).

However, I have yet to see an LLM that can understand an already established large codebase and reliably make well-designed additions to it, in the way that an experienced team of engineers would. I suppose this ability could develop over time with large increases in memory/compute, but even state-of-the-art models today are so far away from being able to act like an actual senior engineer that I'm not worried.

Don't get me wrong, LLMs are incredibly useful in my day-to-day work, but I think of them more as a leap forward in developer tooling, not as an eventual replacement for me.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#22
> the more I hear that some of them are either using AI to help them code, or feed entire projects to AI and let the AI code, while they do code review and adjustments.

It's not enough to make generalizations yet. What kind of projects ? What tuning does it need ? What kind of end users ? What kind of engineers ?

In the field I work with, I can't see how LLMs can help with a clear path to convergence to a reliable product. I anything, I suspect we will need more manual analysis to fix insanity we receive from our providers if they start working with LLMs.

Some jobs will disappear, but I've yet to see signs of anything serious emerge yet. You're right for juniors though, but I suspect those who stop training will loose their life insurance and will starve under LLMs either by competition, our the amount of operational instability it will bring.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#23
I've been thinking about this a bunch and here's what I think will happen as cost of writing software approaches 0:

1. There will be way more software

2. Most people / companies will be able to opt out of predatory VC funded software and just spin up their own custom versions that do exactly what they want without having to worry about being spied on or rug pulled. I already do this with chrome extensions, with the help of claude I've been able to throw together things like time based website blocker in a few minutes.

3. The best software will be open source, since it's easier for LLMs to edit and is way more trustworthy than a random SaaS tool. It will also be way easier to customize to your liking

4. Companies will hire way less and probably mostly engineers to automate routine tasks that would have previously be done by humans (ex: bookkeeping, recruiting, sales outreach, HR, copywriting / design). I've heard this is already happening with a lot of new startups.

EDIT: for people who are not convinced that these models will be better than them soon, look over these sets of slides from NeurIPS:

- https://michal.io/notes/ml/conferences/2024-NeurIPS#neurips-...

- https://michal.io/notes/ml/conferences/2024-NeurIPS#fine-tun...

- https://michal.io/notes/ml/conferences/2024-NeurIPS#math-ai-...

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#24

As for every job done well the most important thing is to truly understand the essence of your job, why it exist in the first place and which problem truly solves when done it well. A good designers is not going to be replaced by Dall-e/Midjourney, becuase the essence of design is to understand the true meaning/purpose of something and be able to express it graphically, not align pixels with the correct HEX colour co…

It's a good point, and I keep hearing it often, but it has one flaw.

It assumes that most engineers are in contact with the end customer, while in reality they are not. Most engineers are going through a PM whose role is to do what you described: speak with customers, understand what they want and somehow translate it to a language that the engineers will understand and in turn translate it into code. (Edit), the other part are "IC" roles like tech-lead/staff/etc, but the ratio between ICs and Engineers is, my estimate, around 1:10/20. So the majority of engineers are purely writing code, and engage in supporting actions around code (tech documentation, code reviews, pair programming, etc).

Now, my questions is as follows -- who has a bigger rate of employability in post LLM-superiority world: (1) a good technical software engineer with poor people/communication skills or (2) a good communicator (such as a PM) with poor software engineering skills?

I bet on 2, and as one of the comments says, if I had to future proof my career, I would move as fast as possible to a position that requires me to speak with people, be it other people in the org or customers.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#25
Back in the late 80s and early 90s there was a craze called CASE - Computer-Aided Software Engineering. The idea was humans really suck at writing code, but we're really good at modeling and creating specifications. Tools like Rational Rose arose during this era, as did Booch notation which eventually became part of UML.

The problem was it never worked. When generating the code, the best the tools could do was create all the classes for you and maybe define the methods for the class. The tools could not provide an implementation unless it provided the means to manage the implementation within the tool itself - which was awful.

Why have you likely not heard of any of this? Because the fad died out in the early 2000's. The juice simple wasn't worth the squeeze.

Fast-forward 20 years and I'm working in a new organization where we're using ArchiMate extensively and are starting to use more and more UML. Just this past weekend I started wondering given the state of business modeling, system architecture modeling, and software modeling, could an LLM (or some other AI tool) take those models and produce code like we could never dream of back in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s? Could we use AI to help create the models from which we'd generate the code?

At the end of the day, I see software architects and software engineers still being engaged, but in a different way than they are today. I suppose to answer your question, if I wanted to future-proof my career I'd learn modeling languages and start "moving to the left" as they say. I see being a code slinger as being less and less valuable over the coming years.

Bottom line, you don't see too many assembly language developers anymore. We largely abandoned that back in the 80s and let the computer produce the actual code that runs. I see us doing the same thing again but at a higher and more abstract level.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#26
post #10

> My prediction is that junior to mid level software engineering will disappear mostly, while senior engineers will transition to be more of a guiding hand to LLMs output, until eventually LLMs will become so good, that senior people won't be needed any more. It is more like across the board beyond engineers, including both junior and senior roles. We have heard first hand from Sam Altman that in the future that Agen…

> So frankly, I'm afraid that the belief that software engineers of any level are safe in the intelligence age is 100% cope. In 2025, I predict that there will be more layoffs because of this.

If this point could be clarified into a proposal that was easily testable with a yes/no answer, I would probably be willing to bet real money against it. Especially if the time frame is only until the end of 2025.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#28
I think in some sense the opposite could occur, where it democratizes access to becoming a sort of pseudo-junior-software engineer. In the sense that a lot more people are going to be generating code and bespoke little software systems for their own ends and purposes. I could imagine this resulting in a Cambrian Explosion of small software systems. Like @m_ke says, there will be way more software.

Who maintains these systems? Who brings them to the last mile and deploys them? Who gets paid to troubleshoot and debug them when they reach a threshold of complexity that the script-kiddie LLM programmer cannot manage any longer? I think this type of person will definitely have a place in the new LLM-enabled economy. Perhaps this is a niche role, but figuring out how one can take experience as a software engineer and deploy it to help people getting started with LLM code (for pay, ofc) might be an interesting avenue to explore.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#29

As for every job done well the most important thing is to truly understand the essence of your job, why it exist in the first place and which problem truly solves when done it well. A good designers is not going to be replaced by Dall-e/Midjourney, becuase the essence of design is to understand the true meaning/purpose of something and be able to express it graphically, not align pixels with the correct HEX colour co…

this is the correct answer i can only assume software developers afraid of LLMs taking their jobs have not been doing this for long. being a software developer is about writing code in the same way that being a CEO is about sending emails. and i haven't seen any CEOs get replaced even thought chatgpt can write better emails than most of them

But the problem is that the majority of SWs are like that. You can blame them, or the industry, bust most engineers are writing code most of the time. For every Tech Lead who does "people stuff", there are 5-20 engineers who, mostly, write code and barely know that entire scope/context of the product they are working on.

Re: Ask HN: SWEs how do you future-proof your career in light of LLMs?

#30

As for every job done well the most important thing is to truly understand the essence of your job, why it exist in the first place and which problem truly solves when done it well. A good designers is not going to be replaced by Dall-e/Midjourney, becuase the essence of design is to understand the true meaning/purpose of something and be able to express it graphically, not align pixels with the correct HEX colour co…

> A good software engineer is not going to be replaced by Cursor/Co-pilot, because the essence of programming is to translate the business requirements of a real world problem that other humans are facing into an ergonomic tool that can be used to solve such problem at scale, not writing characters on an IDE.

Managers and executives only see engineers and customer service as an additional cost and will find an opportunity to trim down roles and they do not care.

This year's excuse is now anything that uses AI, GPTs or Agents and they will try to do it anyway. Companies such as Devin and Klarna are not hiding this fact.

There will just be less engineers and customer service roles in 2025.

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