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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#161

Post by hetman »

soheil wrote: post #121
gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

For anyone that has had even moderate experience with TikTok comment moderation, it becomes clear very quickly there's an incredible bias that seemingly disfavours Western interests. This includes calls towards extreme violence that should be banned per their own content policy. I don't think you need to have access to any secret documents to have a good deal of suspicion this platform is being used by foreign actors either directly or indirectly to shape attitudes in the West. If freedom of speech is at stake, protecting TikTok may actually be harmful to that cause.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#162

Post by gretch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using crypto doesn’t somehow make you immune to prosecution. If the government says TikTok is banned, no company’s chief counsel is going to suggest getting around the ban by using bitcoin.

It took forever for the US to do anything about Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb breaking the law. In a post competency, low regulation environment we’re entering, it makes sense to explore creative solutions to extend runway imho (vs immediately folding).

> It took forever for the US to do anything about Uber, Lyft, and Airbnb breaking the law.

And yet look how fast tik tok was banned.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#163

Post by latentcall »

brickfaced wrote: post #30
cma wrote: post #16

Great firewall is one of the worst aspects of China, why do that here?

[flagged]

When people say this, this amounts to just talking about the bad things our government and economic system do to the rest of the world. That isn’t propaganda it’s the truth and you should want the youth to be aware so when they grow up and lead the country they can try and not repeat those same mistakes.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#164

Post by brookst »

gpm wrote: post #76
sadeshmukh wrote: post #74

I'm not sure how exactly the First Amendment works, so someone please correct me, but does banning a platform constitute a violation if individuals can choose other platforms?

"It depends" (like every legal question). It's possible to violate free speech rights by banning a platform even when their are alternatives. Most relevantly to this situation, the platform itself is most likely engaging in speech of its own by choosing what to repeat of what other people have said (i.e. it's choice of algorithm). If the platform was being banned for that speech (and that speech didn't happen to fall…

I’m not aware of any other platforms that have been banned, without also having criminal cases opened. Are there any?

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#165

Post by usui »

brookst wrote: post #146
gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

This way of thinking has been debated for a long time. It's not clear or self-evident doing it the way you describe is the best way to handle things. Sure, it's more self-righteous and sounds good on paper, but does it really hold? https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#166

Post by est »

tgma wrote: post #136
est wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Frewall wasn't built in one day

Please explain its first day then if you want to make that case.

> explain its first day

In the beginning The Elders of the Internet created the Server and Terminals, and pipes that interconnects them

And the online community was without form, and void; and illegal/cp/terror/financing/harmful darkness was upon the face of the deep

And the Spirit of State censorship moved upon the face of the waters

And the State said, Let there be right: and there were rights and wrongs

And the State enforced the right, and it was good; and the State divided the right from the wrong contents.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#167

Post by OhioMan2943 »

This is one of the things in my lifetime that gives me the most optimism, alongisde the IRA Bill.

as someone in Australia who strongly supports our recent U16 ban, I hope META gets removed/broken up for you guys soon after, at least for underage users.

I'm 22 and often wish I had never been born into a world with social media, with the belief that it is one of the worst things we have ever made as a species.

I know the Tit for Tat and privacy optics, and the shutdown of dissenting views on certain proveable crimes in the ME may be bad sometimes, but these are far lesser than the desctruction of the social fabric of a society and the loss of development and inculcation of values of entire generations.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#168

Post by Dalewyn »

tgma wrote: post #147
soheil wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No one is restricted from "free exchange of ideas." TikTok can divest and stay in the US market just fine. It is an ownership question, not a freedom of exchange of ideas question. There is no constitutional right for a foreign entity to do unrestricted business in the United States. US Congress likewise does not give a fuck what you think though, unless you are a US Citizen and even then you get a single vote. The U…

It is worth noting that the Constitution itself states (interpreted as stating) that Constitutional rights only apply to US nationals/citizens (which the Constitution derives powers from) and only those residing within US sovereign jurisdiction.[1][2]

So you are correct, except this was decided at literally the most fundamental level of US governance instead of on Capitol Hill.

Obligatory IANAL.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamble_to_the_United_States_...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#169

Post by DiscourseFan »

est wrote: post #112

Is it legally possible for Tiktok to provide a "takeout" function, and user uploads the data to a non-bytedance app that happens to work exact the same way as Tiktok do? If so, this whac-a-mole could go on for ever. Feds would practically establish an office dedicated for app approval

Its possible but unlikely if that data happens to corroborate the suspicions of lawmakers

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#170

Post by cookiengineer »

brookst wrote: post #146
gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

Openness?

Sure, but how are you gonna enforce it? Proprietary codebases usually stay...proprietary. Even Telegrams open client doesn't prove shit when it comes to server-side decryption keys and logs. And this, from a black box systems perspective, is a hard thing to make transparent.

Given the history of cryptography we can't even rely on that anymore and have to assume a compromise in the future due to how those elliptic curves (and their seeds) are created.

Even just assuming that Qualcomm doesn't track you with their two GPS domains that are constantly pinged is very naive. And we've also uncovered a history of abuse in CPU backdoors (looking at you, Intel).

So where does transparency have to start? My theory is that without solving capitalism as the bug of democracy we can't have transparency. As long as there is financial incentives, there will be no transparency.

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