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School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

york.ac.uk

451–460 of 706 posts

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not a scientist in this field, but I would have been very surprised to have seen a difference in cognitive ability this quickly. Not sure. I worked with a science team that had found very strong cognitive improvements in the short term (~2 weeks) after improving sleep quality. Though, study participants were mostly middle aged and elderly.

That seems plausible though. I have small kids and hence bad sleep often and when I'm very tired I often have to put off difficult programming tasks for another day and just do refactoring or whatever. I think it's entirely expected that it's harder to think clearly when you're really tired. Is it harder to think clearly because you've just been watching shorts/reels for an hour? Absolutely not. It's an addictive was…

Have you watched the infinite scroll much? Because my direct experience says you're wrong. Probably you can't really recreated the teenage phone experience even if you wanted to. What you need is:

1) a large enough group of actual close friends to use some social media app, so that by deleting that app you are removing a large part of your social life

2) those apps to continuously add infinite scroll, ad driven, engagement trap shit into every single aspect of the entire app.

Imagine if your work messages came through tiktok and by pressing back you were instantly dropped into an infinite scroll feed curated to your interests. Or say, slack gets bought and becomes an ad driven company who's only metric is increased time in app. But! Then your work refuses to change apps! So as you watch the app slowly become an attention pit, you are completely prevented from escaping it.

I don't think a lot of you old fogies really understand what the apps are like these days, or what teenage social life is like without the apps.

The fact that you're claiming that it's not harder to read an uninteresting paragraph after watching an infinite feed tells me you, luckily, have the privilege of not being tethered to these apps. You have the privilege to exist in a world where your social life isn't governed by ad revenue.

Because i grew up at the very start of all this, and some of my friends still use some of the apps, and everything that's "common knowledge" about phones and attention spans is true. The phone itself is fine, but i do think that the infinite scroll is just about the most dangerous device on the planet, barring the obvious ones.

This just reads like a thread about preventing teenagers from starting smoking, being filled with older people saying "why would you do that? Quitting smoking isn't hard, i smoked a pack once and was fine. And besides, smoking a cigarette or two doesn't hurt anyone, I'm fine".

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh-huh. You have a conjecture, you test it, and then you say "looks like reality didn't match our conjecture, the conjecture must be wrong." Except here they got a negative result and said "reality must be wrong". It's a determined effort to find specific results.

Science denialism will send us back to tbe dark ages.

You'd better not do any, then. Were you thinking of it?

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#453

When I see all these "phone ban" experiments, I always wonder, is the phone that's the issue, or is it the apps/websites tailored for engagement (a.k.a addiction)? Maybe instead of banning kids from using phones, they should consider banning companies from making their apps addictive on purpose.

For increased happiness it is the ban of addictive websites. Likes, dislikes and most importantly, flagging, censoring and cancelling , externalizes your locus of control and makes you think that you live in a dystopian world. The Internet wasn't this bad when people were on Usenet and no one would censor your thoughts. For cognitive abilities it is the phone ban itself.

This is an enormously disingenuous take. When Usenet was the only game in town, children were not stumbling into hyperoptimized addictive experiences tailored to every flick of their eyes. You don’t think that thousands of engineers building TikTok or Instagram to hijack your child’s literal capacity for attention and healthy social development “externalizes your locus of control”?

Reducing the algorithmic targeting of children (by taking away phones or otherwise) is no more censorship than telling someone to stop standing in front of you and shouting in your face.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just went to where 99% of parents don't even know how to get to. Do you think it should be expected of parents to figure out how to use whatever "PiHole" is to protect their kids? I admire your personal dedication to making it as hard as possible to be exploited, but we really can't expect non-tech people to go to the same lengths. And at one point, we might have to admit that parents who spend 99% of their time…

My point is - it's under my control, if I didn't know how to do this I'd either accept the ads, pay, or not allow phone usage. There are options. I don't need the government to do that for me, I can decide myself. Here in Europe, phone is necessary for daily life - even as a kid. And it makes it so much easier, better - and interesting, if you teach your kids that. My kids use their phone like a Star Trek tricorder,…

I'm going to go to an extreme, but if we had solid research that said banning phones at school resulted in some extreme, lets say 50%, improvement in their ability to learn, would you support the ban of phones during school time? Would you expect the school to _not_ implement a policy that would benefit learning that much?

What if we swapped this out for "not taking edibles during class", would that infringe on your kids personal freedom too much?

In a world where parents feed their children fast food all the time, and let them play mindless Ipad games from an early age, I have lower faith in every parent reading the relevant literature and implementing best practices than I have in academic institutions figuring out how to optimize learning (not that I have a huge amount of faith in that either, just more)

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ostracization is a strawman. A few good friends (or even just one) is, imo, going to provide far more fulfillment than a million digital friends. And when living in an appropriate place to raise children (playgrounds, etc near housing) it's super easy to meet other parents. And, in my experience at least, a rather large percent are also against 'digitizing' their kids. Making friends the old fashioned way, and no…

I don't think you have the appropriate context here. This isn't about "good" (in person?) friends vs digital friends known only online. This is about schoolkids who almost all have smartphones losing a channel of communication with their schoolmates and thus being excluded from much of what goes on in the social group outside of school. I have a child around this age and can absolutely see the issue, but I think it's…

Yes, the two kids in grade school who's parents wouldn't let them watch SpongeBob felt some exclusions from the lunch table discussion as well. The social aspect is extremely difficult to solve, and the app makers know this and accentuate it. They are shrewd businesspeople who's only goal is a functioning app that brings in more money than last year, hopefully on an exponential curve. This social exclusion aspect is why Facebook is still there, plodding along. They've effectively trapped the last groups of people there, and they raise the wall faster than the stragglers can climb. I'm currently trapped in snapchat as the only way to stay in touch with my old dnd group for when i come around. But those people are actually my best friends, so i speak to them more often, and i will be decompiling the APK and gutting the engagement shit with a rusty saw the moment i have time.

It's crazy there's people here defending these companies.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read what Socrates has to say about book addicts. We need to burn more of them to raise awareness of just how pernicious the written word is.

Sure, maybe in his time he was right. Maybe he wasn't. But i think if you go ask parents of grade/middle/high schoolers they'd cry with joy if their children were just addicted to reading. It's fully possible that going from only ever interacting in the real world with people to sitting alone reading all day caused some problems with integration. It's also entirely possible that phones do a different kind of thing by…

My kids are addicted to reading and I don't like it. Reading is great but not at the expense of staying up until 3am on a school night, not helping with basic household chores, not practicing music, not doing homework.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#457
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a school doesn’t have an IT policy of blocking YouTube and socials, then they are just inept. If the school is buying instructional material that requires that, then they are inept. If an instructional company is making anything requiring any of that, they are inept.

Yeah but most IT graduates working in a UK school on that salary are beyond inept in all honesty which is why do y many kids are able to find ways around the tills they use...

That is quite an offensive and uninformed comment.

I worked in that sector a long time ago and your hipshot is very far from my lived experience. If you want to educate yourself in what the large community of typically very dedicated IT workers in UK schools do to protect children from online harm, search for edugeek and take a look through their "filtering" related forum.

Back when I did that kind of work the web filtering tools were stil mostly commercial, e.g. Websense, and we maintained reasonably good control, but it was a cat and mouse effort. As just one example, for blocking games it wasn't enough just to block all game websites (new ones every day) and all "proxy" sites as they were known (new ones every hour), you'd also have to block things the kids brought in. At one point we wrote a script that scanned files to find all Excel documents with Flash games embedded within them via an activex component and nuke them.

This is all against the backdrop of maintaining an incredibly diverse IT setup where commercial software often had utterly appalling requirements but was mandated from on high. I now work in an organisation with >£1bn turnover and it probably has fewer licensed software packages than just one secondary school I used to work for.

What you realise over time is that the technical tools are not really the solution. Classroom teachers need to use their skills to keep children on task. Schools need to use their existing disciplinary protocols when children don't follow the agreed rules. IT staff need to provide a baseline level of safety to ensure that no child can accidentally or casually break the IT rules.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#458
post #437

It's not phones or tablets. It's the wrong doing apps / social netwrks / games. Same applies to friends: there are friend circles that bring only bad behaviors. We don't ban friendship because of that. Ban social network apps. Ban addictive games. Ban notifications and any other FOMO-triggering mechanisms. Don't ban phones.

OK, but anyone who makes this argument should at least put some effort into thinking about how to define what is a social network, and what is an addictive game. It’s not that you’re wrong, but you need to think about the execution and making sure that the criteria has a strong basis in principle that can be used to justify the decisions on what to ban. Otherwise you’re just suggesting the impossible

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#459
post #437

It's not phones or tablets. It's the wrong doing apps / social netwrks / games. Same applies to friends: there are friend circles that bring only bad behaviors. We don't ban friendship because of that. Ban social network apps. Ban addictive games. Ban notifications and any other FOMO-triggering mechanisms. Don't ban phones.

It's nothing. This study is narrow and shows no changes in cognitive capability, only sleep. A huge longitudinal study has shown screen time has minimal effect on cognitive ability or behavior of kids:

https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/news-events/no-evidence-screen-time...

There are far worse things in modern culture that are stressing out kids out.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#460

> Interestingly, the research didn’t show significant improvements in cognitive ability; the phone ban group showed a modest 3% boost in working memory, and there were no improvements in sustained attention. Researchers suggest that these results might mean that changes in cognitive ability could take longer than the study period of 21 days to materialise. Notice how they had decided beforehand what they were going t…

That’s a very uncharitable interpretation of what they wrote, and goes outside of how what they wrote is supposed to be interpreted.

The researchers are not claiming that cognitive ability changes would definitely take longer than 21 days to appear, they’re suggesting that that is the next thing to test.

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