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DIY B&B

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Re: DIY B&B

#11

Post by DanielBMarkham »

Just about every year for as long as I can remember, my family has taken a summer vacation at a beach about 300 miles away. We always stay in a hotel.

Over time, the beach has gotten tacky. Big billboards. Lots of nightlife. Amusement park rides. All kinds of things that reek of Las Vegas, but not so much a relaxing family vacation.

So this year we decided to try something different. I got onto VRBO online and picked out a beach house 1000 miles away in Florida. The owner included pictures, and there were lots of references and reviews for me to assess risk beforehand. I sent them a check -- which they could have cashed and absconded with -- and we drove down on the day scheduled.

It was the best beach vacation we've ever had. In addition, it was half or a third as much as our previous vacations.

Vested interests can fight as much as they want, but this is a done deal: people own their stuff and they're damn well liable to do what they want to with it. If I can sell you a 8-passenger airplane without warranty, you can certainly come stay at my house for an night or two. Laws which were used to increase the quality of hotel stays back in 1890 have extremely little applicability today.

I don't know if we're going to use the same house again this year -- the owner was magnificent, and I'm not about to share where it was! -- but I know that we'll be sticking to this model for a good while.

Re: DIY B&B

#12

Post by dmk23 »

This is a classic example of anti-competitive market fixing, masquerading as a "regulation to protect consumers" or somesuch.

There is no legitimate justification to infringe on a contract between a willing buyer and a willing seller, but to actually fight these crackdowns you have to spend lots of $$$ on local political campaigns in every municipality. Easier said than done. Unless that massive lobbying investment (or at least a publicity campaign, like SOPA boycotts) happen the entrenched interests win by default and lots of peer-to-peer transactions will move to gray/black market.

Prohibition always creates speakeasies and the organized crime to protect them.

EDIT: To address "devil advocates", yes, most regulation mandated and enforced by government is a terrible imposition. Self-regulation that preserves consumer choice is a much better idea. You want to pay extra $$$ for a better level of service / protection /etc? Make it an optional line item with explicit cost.

Re: DIY B&B

#13

Post by will_work4tears »

Maybe AirBnB's solution to this is some kind of timeshare setup for cities with the time-limit laws.

You purchase the joint right to use the house x/365 days a year, but your "lease" is a month/year long.

Might not get around the safety type laws though.

Re: DIY B&B

#14

Post by [deleted] »

btipling wrote: post #4

These laws seems to curb an efficient market process, which I don't like if true. Also I think the government loses out on special taxes from Hotel business, but maybe those taxes could also be collected from these B&B type operations? Hotels have no business using the law to fight a competitive threat, in my opinion anyway. Does not seem to make sense to me.

[deleted]

Re: DIY B&B

#15

Post by sliverstorm »

blaines wrote: post #8
tokenadult wrote: post #3

From the article: "For more than a year now, New York City has been enforcing a new state law that makes it illegal for homeowners like Hogan to rent out their house or apartment for less than a month. All across the city, police raids have shut down hundreds of similar informal bed-and-breakfast establishments, with nearly 1,900 different violations issued in under twelve months. Often, the fees associated with the…

I had to take my couch offline because my HOA threatened to fine me. No more visitors, no more foreign friends. :( It seems the first wave of enforcement has come from HOAs, I've heard of various people having to remove their listing for that reason. [1] Now it appears, according to the article above, municipal authorities are pushing back. Could this be a result of lobbying from hotels? Vacation rentals is not a new…

... telling me who I can or can not have over to stay.

They aren't telling you who you can or can not have over, they are prohibiting you from having temporary guests that pay.

Why? Well, an establishment that houses temporary guests traditionally has to answer to health & safety codes and regulations. Under-the-radar AirBnB rentals circumvent that system.

You'd probably get similar kickback if you tried running an informal restaurant out of your home. "Who is the government to tell me who I can and can not serve food!" Well, restaurant health codes, that's who.

Re: DIY B&B

#16

Post by scarmig »

blaines wrote: post #8
tokenadult wrote: post #3

From the article: "For more than a year now, New York City has been enforcing a new state law that makes it illegal for homeowners like Hogan to rent out their house or apartment for less than a month. All across the city, police raids have shut down hundreds of similar informal bed-and-breakfast establishments, with nearly 1,900 different violations issued in under twelve months. Often, the fees associated with the…

I had to take my couch offline because my HOA threatened to fine me. No more visitors, no more foreign friends. :( It seems the first wave of enforcement has come from HOAs, I've heard of various people having to remove their listing for that reason. [1] Now it appears, according to the article above, municipal authorities are pushing back. Could this be a result of lobbying from hotels? Vacation rentals is not a new…

Well, municipalities have had similar rules for awhile, though more often to be used as a stick against people engaging in arguably socially harmful behavior. And at least in the case of HOA, more often than not a contract was signed in the beginning that explicitly forbids that type of arrangement.

Which sucks, but it is the free market. Just goes to show that contract rights aren't enough to ensure freedom.

Re: DIY B&B

#17

Post by tgrass »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #11

Just about every year for as long as I can remember, my family has taken a summer vacation at a beach about 300 miles away. We always stay in a hotel. Over time, the beach has gotten tacky. Big billboards. Lots of nightlife. Amusement park rides. All kinds of things that reek of Las Vegas, but not so much a relaxing family vacation. So this year we decided to try something different. I got onto VRBO online and picked…

In 1890 it was not uncommon to rent a room in one's house to a stranger either.

Re: DIY B&B

#18

Post by robomartin »

This is really troubling and sickening. It's your property and you should be able to do as you please with it. What is the value of ownership if what you own is under government and HOA control? Disgusting.

The fact that we allow government to get involved in our personal lives at this level should scare everyone. They are telling some of these people that they can't earn money to make-up for the fact that they fell upon hard times by using the one asset that they work so hard to acquire. You can't even rent your couch? This isn't right.

As for the hotel industry. Well, offer a better product at good prices with exceptional service and you'll keep your customers. In other words: Compete.

Re: DIY B&B

#19

Post by olefoo »

btipling wrote: post #4

These laws seems to curb an efficient market process, which I don't like if true. Also I think the government loses out on special taxes from Hotel business, but maybe those taxes could also be collected from these B&B type operations? Hotels have no business using the law to fight a competitive threat, in my opinion anyway. Does not seem to make sense to me.

This looks like a classic example of regulatory capture, where the regulator becomes an effective barrier to new entrants to the market.

Factor in the concentrated nature of the hotel industry (fewer of them, more at stake) and you can see why they are motivated and able to put pressure on the bureaucracy.

The whole thing does strike me as morally irresponsible in that a city with a persistent and undealt with homeless problem should not be limiting the availability of housing units until the blatant market failure has been dealt with.

Re: DIY B&B

#20

Post by tgrass »

blaines wrote: post #8
tokenadult wrote: post #3

From the article: "For more than a year now, New York City has been enforcing a new state law that makes it illegal for homeowners like Hogan to rent out their house or apartment for less than a month. All across the city, police raids have shut down hundreds of similar informal bed-and-breakfast establishments, with nearly 1,900 different violations issued in under twelve months. Often, the fees associated with the…

I had to take my couch offline because my HOA threatened to fine me. No more visitors, no more foreign friends. :( It seems the first wave of enforcement has come from HOAs, I've heard of various people having to remove their listing for that reason. [1] Now it appears, according to the article above, municipal authorities are pushing back. Could this be a result of lobbying from hotels? Vacation rentals is not a new…

HOAs are a whole different beast when it comes to the discussion of markets and property rights.

You choose to join an HOA.

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