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macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

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Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#291

Post by GeekyBear »

philistine wrote: post #288
echelon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. Apple turning our devices into jail cells. These tech titans need to be regulated. We should be able to install whatever we want on Mac, iPhone, and Android. To be able to back up whatever we want, install from web, not be forced to use app stores, not be forced to sync with the cloud, and not be…

There is a technical reason that greatly benefits the user. The ability to guarantee the OS is unchanged, and to restore to factory defaults like on an iPhone are great benefits. Regulations on our OSes means we end up with Microsoft refusing to limit access to the kernel not to displease the EU, which led to the Crowdstrike outage.

The EU objected to Microsoft having access to APIs that third party developers did not.

There has been no EU objection to creating new security APIs that would be accessable to Microsoft and third party developers.

As far as MacOS goes, you can't infect the system files with malware when the whole partition they live on cannot be modified by anything but the OS, which does indeed seem like a valid technical reason.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#292

Post by lxgr »

sam1r wrote: post #10
a2tech wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from the SuperDuper backup folks. SuperDuper is a tool that you can use to make bootable backups of your macOS system. Apple took away the ability for 3rd party tools to manipulate the OS and copy it to another partition/drive and took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. So that breaks SuperDuper's ability to make a nice, clean, bo…

Is this something intentional that Apple has publicly stated in some realm? AFAIK, in that case, maybe it's just a bug that they're planning to fix...

"Resource busy", as opposed to "this tool is no longer supported", almost certainly is a bug, and I don't read the blog post as implying otherwise.

But that doesn't mean it's not reckless of Apple to introduce a load-bearing component that wasn't necessary before and then not properly regression test it across OS updates.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#293

Post by lxgr »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #221
lxgr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time Machine is really quite good, all things considered. I’d be very happy if Apple were to bring it to iOS, but obviously they’ll never cannibalise their iCloud storage subscription business.

> Time Machine is really quite good, all things considered. This comment page is full of examples of very real issue with Time Machine which will bite you at some point if you use it. It’s not quite good. It’s bug riddled and Apple refuses to actually do the work to fix it because they would rather you buy iCloud.

Backup systems are both complex and very very critical to many people – of course there will be somebody running into every conceivable edge case.

But good or bad only make sense as evaluations relative to something. In my case, that's Linux (I never felt comfortable with any backup solution I looked at there while I was using it, especially not the Ubuntu built-in ones; maybe things have changed with btrfs now) and Windows, which doesn't even try (and all the third party ones I've looked at seem extremely shady in one way or another).

The fact that macOS has a pretty solid one out of the box is more than I'm expecting from an OS at this point. I've restored from it a couple of times, both the entire system and individual files, and it did exactly what I expected of it.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#294

Post by vachina »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #269
vachina wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t care. They want you to subscribe to their iCloud plans and “abstract” away backups so that you lose the ability to own your backups.

I wish they did abstract it away. But iCloud is the only widely used cloud storage service that doesn't have file versioning. So as an iCloud user you really do need a backup and they're telling you as much every step of the way.

To most Apple users, the most important version is the latest version.

My experience with Apple backup is, please turn every backup on so you’ll max out your iCloud storage. There’s no way to tell iOS or MacOS to backup to a self hosted target.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#296

Post by nunez »

incompatible wrote: post #275
nine_k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if the target device is the same part number (I assume an m.2 NVMe), that would work. IDK if it works with other drives, e.g. different capacity, let alone using a USB-attached drive. I don't know what bits, beyond the image proper, belong to the trusted signed set.

It would just be a bit-for-bit copy, so maybe it would work? I don't know what a trusted signed set is. I'm mystified about why I'm getting downvoted for that question. If it's inadvertently stupid of insulting to Apple users, wouldn't an explanation be more useful then trying to censor it?

Is it possible to boot a Linux Live CD on Apple Silicon Macs?

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#297

Post by nunez »

not_a_shill wrote: post #199
deaddodo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't me trying to convince you to use Linux, but the listed reasons (other than LLM testing) aren't real deterrents (and there are plenty that exist for many people, no use pretending not): > Acorn GIMP (or Glimpse, if you want a more modern UI) or Krita can definitely do pretty much anything Acorn can. > Keyboard Maestro GNOME and KDE have been able to do this out of the box from pretty much the beginning. The…

Libreoffice isn't the alternative, office on web is. And even that is still gimped compared to Windows Excel. (Which is the true killer app for professional use of Windows in general)

Office on the Web is a cruel joke. It theoretically does what you want it to do, but more often than not, it will do it extremely slowly while vaporizing your RAM.

I can't imagine it being better on Linux.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#298

Post by nunez »

submeta wrote: post #100

This is bad. - Just recently I broke my system badly. So I decided to erase my system and re-setup from time machine. After several unsuccessful attemts I realized that my Time Machine backup (1.45 tb) exceeded my ssd capacity (1 tb). I did research, and learned not to prune my Time Machine backups. As that may corrupt it. So after several days and failed attempts to restore from time machine and after some research…

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just want to say that it is extremely refreshing to see a good ol' fashioned Linux vs Win vs Mac debate in 2024. The Internet isn't dead.

I lied; I actually do. GIMP sucks!

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#299

Post by j45 »

a2tech wrote: post #5
lxgr wrote: post #2

What is this about? I seem to be missing a lot of context. > Apple broke the replicator. What's the replicator? > What this means is this: until Apple fixes the bug, you'll have to use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" to copy everything but the OS. Use that where? Is that an option in some macOS tool?

This is from the SuperDuper backup folks. SuperDuper is a tool that you can use to make bootable backups of your macOS system. Apple took away the ability for 3rd party tools to manipulate the OS and copy it to another partition/drive and took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. So that breaks SuperDuper's ability to make a nice, clean, bo…

I wonder if Carbon Copy Cloner is affected.

Having bootable backups was the only reason I ever moved to a Mac.

This means, a backup of my computer created using something like Carbon Copy Cloner, or SuperDuper backup when plugged into any other Mac, and it would boot as my computer. Also known as Target Disk Mode booting off this backup.

Indispensible when or if my laptop was in for repair with Apple.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#300

Post by j45 »

philistine wrote: post #288
echelon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> took it upon themselves to provide that functionality via a utility. That utility is apparently non-functional in 15.2. Apple turning our devices into jail cells. These tech titans need to be regulated. We should be able to install whatever we want on Mac, iPhone, and Android. To be able to back up whatever we want, install from web, not be forced to use app stores, not be forced to sync with the cloud, and not be…

There is a technical reason that greatly benefits the user. The ability to guarantee the OS is unchanged, and to restore to factory defaults like on an iPhone are great benefits. Regulations on our OSes means we end up with Microsoft refusing to limit access to the kernel not to displease the EU, which led to the Crowdstrike outage.

A point is being missed here; The user, nor the provider of hardware/software can be hostile towards each other.

Here's why:

The cloud is someone else's computer, not yours. It's a shared drawer that you get a key to, but so do many others. If our main access to your drawer is through the programs on our computer, it also can be limited and broken for hours, days, or weeks while under repair.

I'm not sure how many laptops you've owned (personal and work), it seems once people get past 5-10, we are basically buying the death of the device at the first moment we open a new laptop.

It's my device. I pay for it. I own it. I use it how I want.

Being protected from myself is fine. Being protected from external internet threats is fine.

Having a switch to bypass it is mandatory. Non negotiable. Instant deal breaker.

More realistically, MacOS is possibly * being shuttered, sequestered to get locked down to make adopting iOS / iPadOS type OS on the macbooks directly instead.

Windows tried to dictate when my computer should update and not do anything else, so I left. It's unforgivable. This was well before any policies to manage it cam eout.

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