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macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

shirtpocket.com

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Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#51

Post by bsder »

kelnos wrote: post #32
haileys wrote: post #25

> This sucks. We think it sucks. You think it sucks. But we can't fix it: Apple has to do so. And this is why I gave up on macOS several years ago now and moved to Linux. It's not about which OS is better or worse. All software has bugs. It's about the empowerment to _do something_ about the inevitable bugs, rather than wait and hope that a fix comes down from above.

And not just that: if an update breaks my Linux install, I can figure out what broke it and roll back to an older version. Rolling back updates on macOS or Windows is just... not really a thing, at least not without a full reinstall, assuming you even have installation media for older versions these days.

It's actually really difficult to roll back a MacOS machine to an earlier OS even with a full reinstall.

You either have to make MacOS backup disks immediately upon opening the machine, or you have to find MacOS installation disks from the dodgy high seas.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#52

Post by Reason077 »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #37
iamnotsure wrote: post #24

managed software, managed hardware, managed people

One of the worst things about the move to smartphones is the inability to make full backups. I don't understand. It's my own device, all the data belongs to me, and I should be able to back it up whenever I want.

It’s very easy on iOS to make a backup of your phone including all apps, settings, and data. Either to the cloud to locally to your own storage. What am I missing?

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#53

Post by avalys »

eviks wrote: post #45
codazoda wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don’t understand system backups anymore. I keep everything I care about in a single directory and clone that to the cloud. I no longer need to worry about backups outside of this. It’s easy enough to install a fresh OS and restore my directory. I’ll need to install a few apps but I’ll also have a nice clean system to work with.

And if you have many apps and don't treat your carefully edited configs as dirt, you'll understand it'd be a giant waste of time to recreate from scratch

I don’t carefully edit any configs. I try to be productive with the default/recommended configuration as much as possible, and be flexible when things change rather than fight to restore the familiar behavior. Otherwise you’re constantly fighting a lonely battle.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#54

Post by bsder »

dymk wrote: post #40
haileys wrote: post #25

> This sucks. We think it sucks. You think it sucks. But we can't fix it: Apple has to do so. And this is why I gave up on macOS several years ago now and moved to Linux. It's not about which OS is better or worse. All software has bugs. It's about the empowerment to _do something_ about the inevitable bugs, rather than wait and hope that a fix comes down from above.

In theory I can make bluetooth and wifi and deep-sleep work with Linux, but am I actually able to fix it? No, and not for a lack of trying. If we're talking about practical ability to fix what goes wrong with my daily driver, then macOS still wins hands down.

As opposed to all the people who can't make a USB keyboard work with MacOS and can't do a damn thing about it.

The thread about it generally reaches 40+ pages before Apple erases it only for it to come back. Apple has known about it for half a decade. I can pinpoint the OS release when they broke it. Sure, it doesn't seem to affect everybody, but the people it does affect have no recourse.

With MacOS, as long as everything works, everything works. But, when it doesn't, you cannot do a damn thing about it.

Linux very, very rarely leaves that kind of catastrophic bug for 5+ years.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#55

Post by alwayslikethis »

Reason077 wrote: post #52
alwayslikethis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the worst things about the move to smartphones is the inability to make full backups. I don't understand. It's my own device, all the data belongs to me, and I should be able to back it up whenever I want.

It’s very easy on iOS to make a backup of your phone including all apps, settings, and data. Either to the cloud to locally to your own storage. What am I missing?

You never had chat apps that don't let you back up the chats? How about login tokens, authentications? That counts too. Are you able to roll them back selectively when an app misbehaves?

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#56

Post by eviks »

avalys wrote: post #53
eviks wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you have many apps and don't treat your carefully edited configs as dirt, you'll understand it'd be a giant waste of time to recreate from scratch

I don’t carefully edit any configs. I try to be productive with the default/recommended configuration as much as possible, and be flexible when things change rather than fight to restore the familiar behavior. Otherwise you’re constantly fighting a lonely battle.

You don't need to fight anything, yo can be just as flexible, just starting from a much better base that the defaults. But this is not about you, but the inability to understand the value of backing up apps and their configs

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#57

Post by result2vino »

brigade wrote: post #34
sam1r wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this something intentional that Apple has publicly stated in some realm? AFAIK, in that case, maybe it's just a bug that they're planning to fix...

Which part? The inability for 3rd parties to create bootable images instead of using Apple-signed tools? Because that was 4 years ago and is kind of a fundamental requirement for the chain of trust needed for signed system volume security introduced back then. Or are you arguing that this blog post is wrong in asserting the OS release this week introduced a bug in those tools?

Arguing? Christ. Is that what we call “stating that it’s possible that…”. Not everything is a hill to die on.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#58

Post by srhtftw »

jeffbee wrote: post #22

Gotta be honest, I find the idea of a bootable backup disk to be defective. What if it was an OS bug that wiped out your volume, and booting the backup does the exact same thing to the backup, because of the same bug?

> Gotta be honest, I find the idea of a bootable backup disk to be defective

Well, having relied on a similar product (Carbon Copy Cloner) to keep a bootable backup in addition to time machine backups for myself and members of my family to reduce MTTR for many years, I find the idea of being unable to trivially recover from a hardware failure in a few minutes to be defective.

Any of our clones can be booted on any similar system. On a few occasions people have used borrowed machines until repairs were complete without relying on cloud or internet connectivity. Of course these are all older systems and working while booted from an external drive is definitely a degraded experience akin to driving on a spare tire until you can get to a proper service station.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#59

Post by wombatpm »

Reason077 wrote: post #52
alwayslikethis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the worst things about the move to smartphones is the inability to make full backups. I don't understand. It's my own device, all the data belongs to me, and I should be able to back it up whenever I want.

It’s very easy on iOS to make a backup of your phone including all apps, settings, and data. Either to the cloud to locally to your own storage. What am I missing?

Cloud does not work. If you have an app that is no longer available in the App Store, when you install from a backup you are out of luck because that app can’t be downloaded from the App Store.

If you choose to manage your phone from a Mac, then you can save a full backup.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#60

Post by dtgriscom »

jamestnz wrote: post #4
lxgr wrote: post #2

What is this about? I seem to be missing a lot of context. > Apple broke the replicator. What's the replicator? > What this means is this: until Apple fixes the bug, you'll have to use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" to copy everything but the OS. Use that where? Is that an option in some macOS tool?

The article's author seems to be part of the team behind the Mac disk-cloning/backup utility, SuperDuper. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescriptio...

shirt-pocket.com and shirtpocket.com lead to the same company's website.
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