The world of tomorrow • Hacker News Board

Re: The world of tomorrow

#81

Post by mandmandam » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:04 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #80

mandmandam wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if Democrats aren't owned by oligarchs. Look at who funds them. Look what they do, instead of what they say.

I don't see how that matter. There was a meaningful choice.

There were some 'meaningful' differences (mostly in their rhetoric, but still) on some important issues.

However, when both 'choices' are openly supporting a live-streamed genocide, then any 'meaning' in the choice is only for people willing to endorse Nazi-level crimes.

... Not Godwinning here, that's just a simple fact; backed up by basically every human rights organization, and the UN, and billions in unguided bombs, etc.

That's why turnout for the Dems was so much lower, as polls and protests had unambiguously promised would be the case. That and the economy, which Democrats insisted is great even as people struggle to survive. Dumb strategy, but the strategists still got paid so...

Democrats used to say, "Not everyone who votes for Trump is a racist - but they all decided it wasn't a dealbreaker"... Well, genocide is quite a bit worse than racism - even if you try to relabel it as 'sparkling ethnic cleansing lite', or 'deserved', or whatever.

And here we are wondering why the future feels fucked up... Smh

Re: The world of tomorrow

#82

Post by kiba » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:21 PM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #81

kiba wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that matter. There was a meaningful choice.

There were some 'meaningful' differences (mostly in their rhetoric, but still) on some important issues. However, when both 'choices' are openly supporting a live-streamed genocide, then any 'meaning' in the choice is only for people willing to endorse Nazi-level crimes. ... Not Godwinning here, that's just a simple fact; backed up by basically every human rights organization, and the UN, and billions in unguided bom…

I am not really going to argue on the issue of Palestine since that is apparently what you refer to, only to say that I still think there's a meaningful difference.

That's why turnout for the Dems was so much lower, as polls and protests had unambiguously promised would be the case. That and the economy, which Democrats insisted is great even as people struggle to survive. Dumb strategy, but the strategists still got paid so...

Regardless of the Democrat's strategic mistakes, you can't avoid the responsibility of voters, who are supposed to be well informed, well educated, and difficult to fool. Democratic shooting ourselves in the foot is a collective sin.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#83

Post by mandmandam » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:29 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #82

mandmandam wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were some 'meaningful' differences (mostly in their rhetoric, but still) on some important issues. However, when both 'choices' are openly supporting a live-streamed genocide, then any 'meaning' in the choice is only for people willing to endorse Nazi-level crimes. ... Not Godwinning here, that's just a simple fact; backed up by basically every human rights organization, and the UN, and billions in unguided bom…

I am not really going to argue on the issue of Palestine since that is apparently what you refer to, only to say that I still think there's a meaningful difference. That's why turnout for the Dems was so much lower, as polls and protests had unambiguously promised would be the case. That and the economy, which Democrats insisted is great even as people struggle to survive. Dumb strategy, but the strategists still got…

> I am not really going to argue on the issue of Palestine since that is apparently what you refer to, only to say that I still think there's a meaningful difference.

Yes, I'm referring to the genocide of Palestinians. It's not something I, or other American voters, could overlook.

> you can't avoid the responsibility of voters

No, and I don't, but when corporate media acts in lockstep with the duopoly's oligarch owners (hey, guess who owns corporate media) then voters can't take the full blame.

Look at corporate media folding themselves into conniptions trying not to acknowledge that Americans response to the assassination of a mass murdering CEO was glee, right across the political spectrum. Look at how they've twisted the 'conflict' (aka genocide) in Gaza.

I'll say it one last time: If Democrats had wanted to win this election, they could have. Easily. All the numbers, all the polls, all the world was telling Biden and Harris for the last year: Stop arming Israel. Stop vetoing ceasefires. Just do the absolute bare minimum so we can hold our noses and vote for you, as is tradition...

Dems refused point blank. Trump's presidency isn't on voters, it's on the Dems themselves; and any analysis which misses this fact isn't worth a pig's fart.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#84

Post by Animats » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

kevindamm wrote: post #64

ben_w wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US can't even make a smartphone any more Has the US ever made one in the first place? IIRC Apple had to go to China for the first iPhone, were there any brands that could do it all in the US?

When Motorola was acquired, a plant was purchased (a formerly Nokia one in Fort Worth, Texas) and the Moto X line was made in the US [0]. It was a short-lived experiment. Motorola was sold to Lenovo, and the plant shut down, within a few years. [0] https://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4717796/made-in-america-a...

Early cell phone manufacturing was more automated than it is now. The "brick" type phones (Nokia, etc.) were a stack of boards with cutouts for the thick components. The whole stack was squeezed together and sometimes riveted. So the internals were well-supported and very tough.

That kind of assembly could be totally automated. Pick and place to make the boards, stack and rivet to put it together.

Modern phones have little pieces and wires all over the place.[1] You'd think these things would be designed for automated assembly, but they're not.

[1] https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/2020/11/15/part-2-ifixit-iphon...

Re: The world of tomorrow

#85

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:29 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #11

Supermancho wrote: post #3

The productivity increases of the modern times led to a corporate class. These oligarchs have eschewed the progressive initiatives, in eager pursuit of even greater wealth, supported by the wholly owned media and a bribed political class. What has been more evenly distributed globally is the ever-growing poverty, pollution and apathy against these powers. To be fair, some improvements have been made, even at the feet…

We're all so pessimistic about the future not because we think it's going to be captured by the plutocrats and oligarchs, but because we know the future has already been preemptively captured by them. They're all doing the work now to cement their positions in the future, and there's nothing the rest of us can do about it. I don't know what great inventions and technological leaps we are going to see in 2030, 2040, o…

> I don't know what great inventions and technological leaps we are going to see in 2030, 2040, or 2050, but what I do know is that the benefits and wealth from them will be captured by the same class that is capturing everything today.

Due to the laws of diminishing returns, the inventions aren't going to be that great and in fact actively destructive as we are basically running the world on innovation, rather than creating innovation for the world.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#86

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:30 PM UTC

shadowerm wrote: post #60

ryandrake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all so pessimistic about the future not because we think it's going to be captured by the plutocrats and oligarchs, but because we know the future has already been preemptively captured by them. They're all doing the work now to cement their positions in the future, and there's nothing the rest of us can do about it. I don't know what great inventions and technological leaps we are going to see in 2030, 2040, o…

As if all us peasants are using rotary phones while the plutocrats and oligarchs have these expensive iphones. What is actually interesting is while the plutocrats and oligarchs have more leg room and better food on their private jet, the airplane itself doesn't move that much faster than me in coach. You simply underestimate the financial mass of the mass market. These plutocrats and oligarchs only exist as part of…

> As if all us peasants are using rotary phones while the plutocrats and oligarchs have these expensive iphones.

What is interesting is that expensive iPhones are really not that great for society in the first place. It is not that they have iPhones and we don't. Rather, it is that we have iPhones and that is how we are controlled and the return isn't worht it.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#87

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:31 PM UTC

deadbabe wrote: post #24

ryandrake wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all so pessimistic about the future not because we think it's going to be captured by the plutocrats and oligarchs, but because we know the future has already been preemptively captured by them. They're all doing the work now to cement their positions in the future, and there's nothing the rest of us can do about it. I don't know what great inventions and technological leaps we are going to see in 2030, 2040, o…

That’s what they want us to believe. But at the end of the day, we can always fight. There’s little they can do to stop a massive violent uprising.

> That’s what they want us to believe. But at the end of the day, we can always fight. There’s little they can do to stop a massive violent uprising.

The problem with revolution in today's society is that it will be a revolution against a system that provides little trivial comforts, rather than a revolution against a system causing starvation. Thus, it will take much more work to revolt, as it is a revolution against technology itself.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#88

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:32 PM UTC

TOGoS wrote: post #37

deadbabe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what they want us to believe. But at the end of the day, we can always fight. There’s little they can do to stop a massive violent uprising.

Or a massive not-violent one. Just stop working. The ruling class will bring the violence soon enough.

> Or a massive not-violent one. Just stop working.

Can't happen. As soon as significantly many people stop working, the remaining will be offered larger salaries to keep working. That is why revolution against the modern power structure is so hard: because there are economic incentives against revolution for the working class.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#89

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:33 PM UTC

lkbm wrote: post #28

Supermancho wrote: post #3

The productivity increases of the modern times led to a corporate class. These oligarchs have eschewed the progressive initiatives, in eager pursuit of even greater wealth, supported by the wholly owned media and a bribed political class. What has been more evenly distributed globally is the ever-growing poverty, pollution and apathy against these powers. To be fair, some improvements have been made, even at the feet…

> This has been at the cost of concentration and increases in pollution and poverty in the poorest nations. Poverty is way down globally. Poor nations are far from where they need to be, but we've lifted a billion or so people out of abject poverty in my lifetime. Don't let a determination to believe everything is bad force you to ignore when things get better.

> Don't let a determination to believe everything is bad force you to ignore when things get better.

A decrease in poverty in this case though is traded by an increased addiction to what the oligarch provides. Is an entire society in a dystopia that provides the basic physical comforts but strips us of meaning in life a good end? I think not.

Re: The world of tomorrow

#90

Post by vouaobrasil » Fri, Dec 13, 2024, 8:34 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #26

Supermancho wrote: post #3

The productivity increases of the modern times led to a corporate class. These oligarchs have eschewed the progressive initiatives, in eager pursuit of even greater wealth, supported by the wholly owned media and a bribed political class. What has been more evenly distributed globally is the ever-growing poverty, pollution and apathy against these powers. To be fair, some improvements have been made, even at the feet…

It's so easy to blame it all on the feet of oligarchs, but it is ultimately our collective responsibility. The democrats lost the popular vote. Think about that. Progress, or even the status quo as it is today is rejected by half of the population.

> It's so easy to blame it all on the feet of oligarchs, but it is ultimately our collective responsibility. The democrats lost the popular vote. Think about that.

Democrat or republican; both support the oligarchy in separate ways because both support the advancement of technology. And increasingly powerful technology supports oligarchy and that power structure cannot be stopped by democracy because democracy functions within technology.