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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#591

Post by encoderer »

int_19h wrote: post #558
encoderer wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes but nobody can explain why we have cute palatable name for a government initiate related to killing people. We don’t have one for execution. Wouldn’t it be absurd if somebody coined an acronym for it like WOAP?

We do have one for execution, obviously: it's "execution", not "killing". "Killing" by itself doesn't accurately describe what MAID is, because it's not just ending someone's life, but doing so on a consensual basis after establishing that they are sound of mind and have a good reason to desire that.

But it’s also shifting the Overton window and normalizing making it banal even.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#592

Post by jacobgkau »

okaram wrote: post #163
rich_sasha wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind the main obstacle is kind of orthogonal: how do you protect the people who don't want to go, being pressured or manipulated. I agree that if someone is really, independently and committedly deciding to go, you shouldn't stop them. But how do you express that test in a bureaucratic, legalistic framework? In a friend's family, there was a big rift as one family member in direct line of inheritance was accuse…

The way most countries who have it (including Canada) have solved it is to add waiting periods, and layers of reviews. In Canada, you need two different doctors to sign off on it. If you're not actively dying, you also have a 90-day period of reflection. And you have to be of sound mind. This seems to me like good enough safeguards, don't you think?

It seems like somewhat reasonable safeguards for most circumstances, except that other guy replied to you saying he thinks there should be zero safeguards and he may well continue espousing and voting for that viewpoint for the rest of his life now that the basic system's in place.

Even if you think the current safeguards are the "sweet spot," continued pressure to make it more difficult will be necessary to prevent it from being made less difficult. (And if you don't think it would be a problem for it to be made less difficult, then citing those safeguards as part of your argument would be disingenuous.)

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#593

Post by wat10000 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #549
wat10000 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can someone make the choice not to have water in their IV, but can’t make the choice to have a fuckton of morphine in their IV?

I think a lot of it comes down to deontological logic and morality versus consequentialist morality. It is recognized that the outcome is the same. The difference lies and how you get there

I was thinking that the divide probably lines up pretty well with people who think the Trolley Problem is a great moral quandary versus people who think it’s obvious you pull the lever and don’t understand the fuss. Which is basically what you said.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#594

Post by CJefferson »

GordonS wrote: post #203
gnfargbl wrote: post #41

During the recent debate around the Assisted Dying Bill in the UK, I listened to a radio phone-in in which a palliative care doctor explained that it wasn't possible to relieve all suffering for all patients. They relayed an example of a person who had spent their last days vomiting fully-formed faeces. If we can prevent five, ten or perhaps twenty percent of people having gruesome deaths, then not doing so feels lik…

Right, but there's a problem - the UK is in a real mess! Social services, medical services, all the services are underfunded and crumbling. There is a cost of living crisis as wages have barely moved in 15 years, food banks are everywhere, and now "multibanks" are popping up. Our country first needs to ensure that people can choose to live , and if needed be cared for; nobody should feel pushed into assisted dying be…

I see your point, but the problem in the UK is we seem to have ground to a halt because "everything is awful".

Not the same argument, but near where I live people have campaigned against new houses for 15 years, because the roads aren't good enough, and the doctors and dentists aren't good enough, but those things haven't been good enough for 15 years, and they probably aren't going to get better.

I fear there is basically no chance we are going to fix the NHS to a high standard in 20 years, if ever, at this point. In that case, we can't simply do nothing until everything is improved.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#595

Post by patrickhogan1 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #349
patrickhogan1 wrote: post #148

Strange question but how does this affect life insurance? Typically a suicide would not be covered.

CHLIA (the Canadian Health and Life Insurance Association) does not treat MAID as suicide. In addition, most plans cover suicide after two years of coverage regardless.

Thank you - this is helpful! It exempts it.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#596

Post by lazyasciiart »

diddid wrote: post #561
smitelli wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, partially, because it’s hell on the first responders to have to clean up a fatal accident scene, which is made worse if the death(s) could have been prevented.

I don’t disagree, but you are making the case for regulating grown adults. For the parent post “who decides how long the waiting period should be?” The answer is society. Right now society says none, but it shouldn’t be looked upon in horror if that changes. If I had to choose, I’d choose seat belts optional over on-demand euthanasia.

Society doesn’t say “none”, if you are talking about Canadian MAID laws. It says “months and a pile of paperwork”.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#597

Post by lazyasciiart »

hattmall wrote: post #298
caseyohara wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

The issue is that every OB/GYN has seen patients that regret the decision. And for most they will have seen instances where that regret ultimately led to suicide. Do you really want to be the doctor that didn't press for more consideration for a patient that ultimately takes their own life? I get the idea of giving women control but as a doctor it's also their right to refuse a procedure to not bear that burden. It's…

I very, very much doubt that any of your claims are true.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#598

Post by raydev »

lucubratory wrote: post #547
deanCommie wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Or is this what anti-euthanasia advocates are spreading as misinformation around to acquire the support of progressives to their cause (which is driven not out of a care for homeless and disabled people, but out of religious/conservative mindsets) Keep mind: I'm not asking "Do those cases ever happen"? Of course they do. There's already been stories. The question is what are the statistics. Every policy, eve…

Comparing the act of people transitioning or people being given financial assistance to the act of people being killed by the state is genuinely sickening. Total inversion of reality and conflation of reversible benefits with literal death. The government has no incentive to provide better housing or disability benefits to the working class when they can instead withhold those things and watch legions of poor & despe…

> The government has no incentive to provide better housing or disability benefits to the working class when they can instead withhold those things and watch legions of poor & desperate people die.

What was Canada's excuse for poor healthcare before MAID existed then?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#599

Post by AzzyHN »

nashashmi wrote: post #175
ben30 wrote: post #13

Fifteen years ago, flying into Vancouver, a local told me charities would give homeless people one-way bus tickets there from colder regions of Canada to prevent winter deaths. No return tickets in spring. Calls into question what we consider "charitable" when the solution is just moving vulnerable people elsewhere. Worrying parallel: will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care an…

if we killed all the homeless people, would our social problems be over? Sick thought. I know. But a part of me blindly believes that our problems will become worse.

Be coming homeless isn't a problem with the person, it's an outcome of the system we live in.

The population of homeless people would end up probably where it was when you killed them all. Though I do wonder how long that would take

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#600

Post by defrost »

jacobgkau wrote: post #567
neom wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't access MAID in Canada any faster than 90 days unless you are at immediate risk of losing your faculties such that you couldn't make the choice. You need multiple specialists to assess you and sign off on it etc.

Really? Then how did the man in guyzero's anecdote do it in less than a week?

> anecdote

Perhaps it'd be best to circle back and check the actual specifics?

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