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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#481

Post by lolinder »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #266

Anyone who has worked at a hospital can tell you how many people die in needless pain and suffering when nothing more can really be done for them. They just wait out the clock in pain or do increasingly horrible procedures that give them a little more time with terrible quality of life. 5% is probably an underestimate of that number. Nurses/doctors don't like to speak up about that part and people don't want to confr…

Like with so many things, what terrifies me is where you draw the line. The cases you're describing—where someone currently has to choose between paying ridiculous amounts of money to continue living in pain while confined to a hospital bed versus dying in terrible pain because the doctors are forbidden from helping you along—these are the easy ones.

But we also have stories here of people deciding to die while they're still mobile and while their loved ones are begging them to not to. Those are much less clear cut to me.

Radical individualism would say that every person should have full autonomy to make any decision they want that doesn't physically damage those around them. But I'm not a radical individualist, so I can't accept that argument alone. There are cases where an individual's choice to end it all early would be a net loss for their immediate community, and there are cases where it would be a net loss for the wider community and the state. At some point that net loss must overrule the individual's autonomy. But where? How do you draw the line?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#482

Post by aristofun »

aristofun wrote: post #473
pwillia7 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you view it as disgusting? I have a great fear of sullying my good name and burdening my family before I get out of here

1. Its not you who started your life - its not for you to rationally decide when it’s over. It’s just a premeditated murder nothing less. Logic and ethics 101 2. Who are you to decide for your closed ones what is good for them? I sincerely wish you will have a decent loving relationship withthem so they cherish every day spent with you. No matter what is your condition.

To clarify - 1* its not even your parents philosophically speaking (they more like arranged the circumstances to allow life to happen).

But if we follow same disgusting logic they have more rights to kill you and yet it is not allowed in a decent society. I wonder whyy?..

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#483

Post by smitelli »

diddid wrote: post #305
caseyohara wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

Grown adults are prevented from making decisions all the time. Wearing a seat belt for example. Why should it be OK to force someone to wear a seat belt all of the time, but not OK to have a waiting period if someone decides they want to die?

Well, partially, because it’s hell on the first responders to have to clean up a fatal accident scene, which is made worse if the death(s) could have been prevented.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#484

Post by Philadelphia »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #408
polski-g wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being in pain, all day, every day. Can you imagine such a decision now?

Without access to painkillers, sure, yes.

Painkillers don’t work for many types of pain

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#485

Post by sys32768 »

Terminal lucidity is a thing I don't see mentioned here.

It is well known that even some advanced dementia patients days or hours before death can exhibit lucid coherence, even speaking and recognizing loved one before death.

Having watched my mother decay from Alzheimer's for 10+ years, I know for sure there is much more left to her than she can express, and every once and a while she speaks in clear sentences, says names of loved ones or pets, and when she talks--even though we barely understand 20% of what she says--it's clear she knows what she's saying based on her facial expressions.

I will also say it's one of the joys of my life to sit with these people, many of whom are "waiting to die" and just talk to them with and listen to them (even when I can't understand them). They light up, and they especially light up when I play them old music on a bluetooth speaker. Some sing, some sway, some even try to dance. Many cannot talk at all but they can still sing the lyrics.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#486

Post by rqtwteye »

karencarits wrote: post #242
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, my grand parents both died in their nineties and their last two years were really sad. It was not so much the physical decline but the mental one. At the end, while technically alive, so little of who they were as persons remained, they might as well have been dead. I fully understand someone in their 80s knowing the end is near choosing to leave on their own term.

I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I wondered, when you described feeling "really sad" and the sense that people "might as well have been dead," I'm wondering if you're speaking about your own emotional response or trying to convey how the individuals themselves felt about their situation? Edited to sound less harsh

My mom is 94 and in reasonably good health for that age. My dad just died after a decade of decline with dementia. My mom often tells me that she just doesn't want to wake up one morning. And she wants to go out while she is still on top. All her friends are gone, husband is gone, she lives but can't do any of her hobbies like gardening anymore. She is tired and there is nothing left in life besides waiting for death. I think it would be good if we had a better culture around dying and let people die in dignity if they don't want to live anymore.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#487

Post by bdndndndbve »

eastbound wrote: post #412
tokioyoyo wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…

The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…

I mean if you replace "taxes" with "profits" you have the current American healthcare system. Condemning people to die from a lack of treatment in order to save on profits.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#488

Post by standardUser »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #139
gravitronic wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

slippery slope fallacy that giving people control of their own deaths will turn into the state euthanized anybody against their will

It's not a slippery slope if it's actually happening But you're right, the state isn't euthanizing anyone against their will, and they don't need to They can simply change incentives in such a way that people decide that it is what they want all on their own

If there are abuses we should strive to minimize or abolish those abuses. The alternative - to tolerate incalculable human suffering and force the loved ones of those suffering to stand there and watch - is unacceptable.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#490

Post by wang_li »

caseyohara wrote: post #186
darth_avocado wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would’ve expected at least a waiting period longer than a week after a traumatic event. Of course I don’t know all the circumstances around it.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

Everyone should be in charge of their own lives. Except doctors, who should shut the fuck up and do as their told. And people with moral and religious objections who should shut the fuck up and keep paying for this. And people who’d like to sell a kidney, who should shut the fuck up and understand that it’ll be taken after they’re dead when it’s of no value to them.
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