Earlier quoted context omitted.
This really misses the key drama of what happened in the last game. Ding had a perfectly safe position where he could try to squeeze Gukesh pretty much endlessly with basically 0 risk. He then, completely inexplicably, went down a forced line which led to the final phase of the game. In this phase the position was drawn with perfect play, but that is completely irrelevant because it is really tough to play. And more…
Is there a metric I can look at in engine evaluations to determine when a situation is "risky" for white or black (e.g., the situation above) even if it looks equal with perfect play? I've always been interested in understanding situations where this is the case (and the opposite, where the engine favours one side but it seems to require a long, hard-to-find sequence of moves. Playing out the top lines helps if equal…
Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
211–220 of 484 posts
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#212Since there seem to be a lot of chess nerds in here, I have a question. Why didn't Fischer chess ever take off? A lot of comments in here amount to "he went slightly off book and it was amazing!". Wouldn't Fischer chess take the game to a whole new level, making it so that all the opening books are useless and the midgame requires much more improv?
For instance, Magnus Carlsen, the world number one by rating, is a fan of Fischer chess aka Chess960.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
for anyone wondering hes 18
For context, legendary Magnus Carlsen was 23 when he first became world champion. Ding Liren, the other finalist and previous winner, is 32. The title holder before Magnus was Anand who first won the title at age 31 (or arguably 38, depending on your stance about the PCA). Kramnik before him was 31. Legendary Garry Kasparov was 22. It's normal for the champion to get his first win in his early 30s. Getting it in your…
Youngest champion ever beats current best chess player.
Instead it's new champion crowned after legendary chess play does not partake in said competition
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
The stereotype of the absent-minded professor is a great illustration of how norms view the world. What WE see as focus, norms see as .. not conforming? Focus is crucial. To be great at chess you need to focus on it. To be great at creating the future you need to focus on it. By definition you can’t focus on both If you aren’t sacrificing, you aren’t focusing. I’m not saying you need to sacrifice everything else. But…
Nevermind all that we learned from teaching chess to a computer. Ya a total waste.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#215That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#216That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…
There was almost no preparation from Ding side. It was very weak.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
This really misses the key drama of what happened in the last game. Ding had a perfectly safe position where he could try to squeeze Gukesh pretty much endlessly with basically 0 risk. He then, completely inexplicably, went down a forced line which led to the final phase of the game. In this phase the position was drawn with perfect play, but that is completely irrelevant because it is really tough to play. And more…
Chess engines should come with another metric bar: "The twitchy-ness" of the position aka the gradient of primary eval metric as you pareto the possible moves from best to worst. The stronger this gradient, the more risky it is to play, and more changes to make a mistake.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. I think all the people who don't like my take i offer this. Blasting a headline like that typically implies like a 13-14 year old. This is impressive but its not some massive upset - 18 is a grown adult for all intents and purposes (brain still developing true…)
No one said very young. Youngest is a comparison, and having 6 years on the previous youngest is massively impressive.
I'm impressed but this isn't the same as coming from another era -- this feels like technology pushing the learning rate for younger people.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Has anyone tried playing one of these "chess engines" against a human? We may have an opportunity to cut out the middleman here (no pun intended).
i think theres something interesting for chess engines to cut out a middleman. the players have "seconds" who are doing things like finding and picking prep for the players to memorize. currently, theyre GMs/super GMs who are somewhat playing against each other, but i think you could train an AI look at lines for ones that the opponent might miss, or that would trip them up
At first glance, charting the future possible moves of a chess game is just a huge branching tree, but humans (and engines that don't have the power to fully brute force the game) use filters to trim the tree. Some lines are dead ends, even though they may play out for a while (sacrifice both rooks and the game is over, no need to follow those branches). There is also a sort of heat map and gravity to some of the lines, in that there are likely directions that players will travel in (paths where you don't give away too many pieces, where the king isn't exposed, etc).
Machines can help highlight specific areas where there are branching points that lead in many viable directions (these are the critical decision-making points in a game of chess), that are deceivingly hidden behind lines that look dead for a while.
It would output a sort of heat map, and the search could even be tweaked for certain variables, such as for number crunching complexity (if the opponent is a bit weak there) or pathways into brutal end-game scenarios (if the opponent is weak there).
This is a microcosm for the real world as well. Lines through time have reflexivity and can reinforce each other. A geopolitical situation can reinforce an economic situation which then feeds back into the political situation. Take something like inflation which tends to do that. But when humans normally look at the world, they see in a sort of normal distribution that is oversimplified. It's commonly understood that humans downplay the left and right tail risks (as explained by Taleb), but it's more nuanced than that. It's more like the chess game, in that there are these hot spots of complexity and interesting situations throughout the forward probability distribution.
Some of these hotspots are deceivingly hidden, because only one multiple possible situations unfold do they feed back into each other and create something emergent.
Back to an arena like trading, participants tend to track each possibility line independently of one another, which makes sense because humans are siloed and specialized to some degree. Technology like machine learning has the ability to synthesize this data and spit back out hot spots, just like in the chess example.
The short-sighted conclusion that most will have is to say "Great! Let it give me a list of trades, and then we can back-test it." when I'm pointing out is that there is a lot of value when it comes to idea generation and efficiently mentally traversing the future probability space. Spending your time focusing on interesting places. Maybe a traitor would look at an implied outcome distribution and realize "Hey, I think that this little part of the curve is underpriced. Maybe I should hedge this specific outcome, because I have exposure to the inputs that feed into this underpriced emergent possibility."
Of course, the trading example is also an abstraction from the raw real world, but it's a bit more close to reality than the chess example. Really, I think that this approach to using machine learning as a tool could be applied to many areas. Even more creative areas could potentially benefit from it.
Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
My distant cousing, a Bengali, named, say, Rama Dass, also grew up in Tamil Nadu. His name was Tamilized to D. Rama or Rama D.- even though Dass was a family surname. > States in India are basically different countries, and the existing state borders for most states don't make sense. No. Huge oversimplification there. It's not definitely like oblasts of Russian Federation. Although they are not close like OR and ID.
> No. Huge oversimplification there I mean culturally and administratively. Heck, in my ancestral state, non-natives cannot purchase land. > It's not definitely like oblasts of Russian Federation It absolutely is. Heck, my ancestral state (HP) is a merger of 3 entirely distinct ethnic communities (Lower Himachalis who are the same community as in Jammu division, Upper Himachalis who are closer to Garwhalis and Kumaou…
There are many all-India services and people are transferred all across India. Many work in different states than those of their home state. Same Constitution, same legal framework. Same religion.
I think if you go deeper you will notice the unifying characteristics rather than superficial differences among states of India.
And while I differ with you on Indian states being very far aways from different Russian states in terms of similarity/differences, I definitely agree with your opinion that Indian state borders don't make much sense.