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Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

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Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#181

Post by fooker »

paulsutter wrote: post #141
seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

Chess really baffles me Most of the more sophisticated people I know are completely disinterested in sports. Not that they dislike sports, it just never occupies their mind. Sports is a purposeless activity for kids Chess is different from sports in only one way: the loss of very intelligent capable people who could be helping to create the future. Chess is even more tragic than the olympics.

Not everything has to have a purpose.

That most of the society thinks so is a failure of our systems.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#182

Post by nilslindemann »

I am not happy with this result (quite the blunder deciding this match) and in general who played for the crown here. Ding is not in the top for a while now and Gukesh has rarely played in Top GM tourns. The silent champ (Magnus) is still around, winning tournaments.

"World champion" currently means "some lucky Top GM" and not "the undisputed number one".

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#183

Post by Sesse__ »

systemvoltage wrote: post #166
ANewFormation wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really misses the key drama of what happened in the last game. Ding had a perfectly safe position where he could try to squeeze Gukesh pretty much endlessly with basically 0 risk. He then, completely inexplicably, went down a forced line which led to the final phase of the game. In this phase the position was drawn with perfect play, but that is completely irrelevant because it is really tough to play. And more…

Chess engines should come with another metric bar: "The twitchy-ness" of the position aka the gradient of primary eval metric as you pareto the possible moves from best to worst. The stronger this gradient, the more risky it is to play, and more changes to make a mistake.

This is not a new request; many people, including engine authors, have suggested it throughout the years. The problem is that it's seemingly very hard to reliably quantify something like this and propagate it throughout the game tree.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#184

Post by Halian »

veidelis wrote: post #165

First of all, I have the greatest respect for the two individuals who played their hearts out in this event. Personally, I'm on the side which thinks that this format is a total stagnation. Maybe the new no-increment under 40 moves is an improvement, but overall it does not count. I agree with Carlsen that the format has to be drastically changed to determine who is the better player. Much more games, shorter games.…

I think something like game/30 would be better, but I’m not terribly edumacated on the intricacies of classical chess time controls.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#185

Post by wbl »

paulsutter wrote: post #141
seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

Chess really baffles me Most of the more sophisticated people I know are completely disinterested in sports. Not that they dislike sports, it just never occupies their mind. Sports is a purposeless activity for kids Chess is different from sports in only one way: the loss of very intelligent capable people who could be helping to create the future. Chess is even more tragic than the olympics.

"To play chess is the mark of a gentleman. To play chess well is the mark of a wasted life"

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#186

Post by frakt0x90 »

ourmandave wrote: post #22
alex1138 wrote: post #4

At 18, this is no small thing. Kasparov was 22, I don't see Gukesh's record being broken for a long while

With 12-year-old GMs running around it's hard to know how long. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_prodigy

There's also a decent amount of controversy around really young GMs. Basically that their parents game the system by choosing official tournaments with burnt out GMs with low ratings so they can get their norms easier. Mishra recently had a lot of backlash from top GMs with those types of accusations. If that's true, those players will likely never reach the top ranks, but who knows.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#187

Post by vunderba »

optimalsolver wrote: post #137
Fade_Dance wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they use chess engines to find interesting lines of play that the opponent presumably is not prepared for. Say, an odd move that looks weak, but a few moves later is back at even, and the player that pushed down this line is now prepared to play on from there (with perhaps further traps laid ahead), while the opponent is somewhat in the dark and has to analyze the situation correctly.

Has anyone tried playing one of these "chess engines" against a human? We may have an opportunity to cut out the middleman here (no pun intended).

Are you serious?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparo...

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#188

Post by 8note »

systemvoltage wrote: post #166
ANewFormation wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really misses the key drama of what happened in the last game. Ding had a perfectly safe position where he could try to squeeze Gukesh pretty much endlessly with basically 0 risk. He then, completely inexplicably, went down a forced line which led to the final phase of the game. In this phase the position was drawn with perfect play, but that is completely irrelevant because it is really tough to play. And more…

Chess engines should come with another metric bar: "The twitchy-ness" of the position aka the gradient of primary eval metric as you pareto the possible moves from best to worst. The stronger this gradient, the more risky it is to play, and more changes to make a mistake.

engines arent great at that. they spot the beat move, and if you dont do it, it keeps spotting that same great move until your opponent notices it.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#190

Post by bonzini »

michaelt wrote: post #174
the_clarence wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imaginative computer preparation Are people training AIs to play in the style of the people they're going to play against so they can practice?

Normal, regular chess engines are sometimes called AI. Or at least they were back in 1997. And people have certainly made themed variants of these chess engines, which purport to simulate certain famous chess players. Right now you can visit https://www.chess.com/play/computer and play a Hikaru-themed chess engine - or a MrBeast-themed chess engine. I don't know how deep the simulation goes, though - they might all j…

The bots are tuned differently to be a bit more tactical or more positional, and they have an opening book that follows the preference of the chosen player.
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