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Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

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Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#141

Post by paulsutter »

seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

Chess really baffles me

Most of the more sophisticated people I know are completely disinterested in sports. Not that they dislike sports, it just never occupies their mind. Sports is a purposeless activity for kids

Chess is different from sports in only one way: the loss of very intelligent capable people who could be helping to create the future.

Chess is even more tragic than the olympics.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#142

Post by bamboozled »

optimalsolver wrote: post #137
Fade_Dance wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they use chess engines to find interesting lines of play that the opponent presumably is not prepared for. Say, an odd move that looks weak, but a few moves later is back at even, and the player that pushed down this line is now prepared to play on from there (with perhaps further traps laid ahead), while the opponent is somewhat in the dark and has to analyze the situation correctly.

Has anyone tried playing one of these "chess engines" against a human? We may have an opportunity to cut out the middleman here (no pun intended).

Has anyone tried playing one of these "chess engines" against a human?

Million times a day ?

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#143

Post by [deleted] »

MrMcCall wrote: post #34
seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

Gukesh took him into the deep water the entire time, putting every possible strain on Ding's energy and reserves. It was the unrelenting pressure of an 18yo badass that cracked Ding, whom I truly feel sorry for. He is a great player and a very, very nice human being. What is crazy is that Gukesh has only been playing chess for a little more than 11 years. ETA: And Ding fought like a lion!

[deleted]

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#144

Post by smus »

zanellato19 wrote: post #85
boringg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like its not that big of an accomplishment relative to the way the headline makes it (obviously a big personal accomplishment). I figure 18 year old chess should have the mental abilities and maybe experience at that point to be able to rise to the top...

HAHAHA Only an HN comment could call the youngest person ever to do something would be said to "not that big of an accomplishment". How would you change that headline?

Not nearly as big of an accomplishment as that guy reducing latency by 3.7% on the legacy microservice at work

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#145

Post by neaden »

awongh wrote: post #122
MrMcCall wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gukesh took him into the deep water the entire time, putting every possible strain on Ding's energy and reserves. It was the unrelenting pressure of an 18yo badass that cracked Ding, whom I truly feel sorry for. He is a great player and a very, very nice human being. What is crazy is that Gukesh has only been playing chess for a little more than 11 years. ETA: And Ding fought like a lion!

"only 11 years"... that seems like a lot to me, although reading further down in the thread it seems like it might take twice or three times as long to get to a very high level. Do people in the chess community measure players by number of years playing? Are there expectations of how long it takes to get to a certain level? (besides world champion)

It's hard to put it in numbers since high level chess players start very young, it's basically considered impossible to become a titled player learning chess as an adult, with a slight exception for high level players from similar games transferring over. So becoming the youngest champ and becoming the champ in the shortest time are very similar. For comparison Magnus started playing chess at 5 and became WC at 22.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#146

Post by seanhunter »

codeulike wrote: post #113
seanhunter wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure we disagree at all. Gukesh's strategy throughout the match was to constantly ask difficult questions and the surprise really was that Ding didn't fold earlier.

So why call it a horrible finish?

Because as a chess fan and just as a human being my heart goes out to Ding Liren who seems like a genuinely likeable and nice human being who has been open about the tremendous struggle he has had with mental health etc since winning the world championships. To pull himself out of a hole that deep and play really great chess for 13 and 9/10s matches and then lose it with a blunder at the last second is awful.

And I say that as 100% someone who wanted Gukesh to win from the beginning, which is a result I think is great for chess and I think is “objectively correct” in the sense that he has played better chess and has been (apart from Magnus Carlsen and his compatriot Arjun Erigaisi who is also a complete monster) the story of the chess world for the last year.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#147

Post by neaden »

optimalsolver wrote: post #137
Fade_Dance wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they use chess engines to find interesting lines of play that the opponent presumably is not prepared for. Say, an odd move that looks weak, but a few moves later is back at even, and the player that pushed down this line is now prepared to play on from there (with perhaps further traps laid ahead), while the opponent is somewhat in the dark and has to analyze the situation correctly.

Has anyone tried playing one of these "chess engines" against a human? We may have an opportunity to cut out the middleman here (no pun intended).

To be clear the high level chess engines are so far above the best humans that there isn't a point anymore.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#148

Post by cenamus »

rob74 wrote: post #103
nomilk wrote: post #39

I was struck by Ding's thoughtfulness, objectivity and humility when asked how he felt after the match (while clearly utterly dejected): > How do you feel? > I think I played my best tournament of the year. I think it was a fair tournament in the end. I have no regrets. > Any message for fans? > Thank you, I will continue to play, I hope I can show strength like this time. Gukesh was equally as objective, humble, and…

> These attributes are what makes chess and its superstars so appealing. I would say that what you just described is usually called "sportsmanship" and is pretty common in most sports (with exceptions of course, but at least most would agree that it's an ideal worth aspiring to)

A lot of exceptions sadly. But with the amount of neuroticism you see with top athletes that's to be expected I suppose

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#149

Post by wongarsu »

ummonk wrote: post #89
MrMcCall wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Nepo and Magnus seem to be cut from a different cloth, although Magnus has never had a moment where he could demonstrate whether or not he can be humble, because he has always just crushed. Anish Giri kind of took a shot at Magnus (with respect to his retiring from classical chess) in his early commentary with Petr Leko a few days ago. People are funny, and one doesn't usually get to be where Ding and Guk…

Magnus doesn't usually direct his frustration at others (except in the infamous Hans Niemann game) but he has been known to storm out of interviews after some of his bad losses.

He sometimes lets the chess speak for itself /s

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#150

Post by not_kurt_godel »

paulsutter wrote: post #141
seanhunter wrote: post #31

That was a absolutely horrible finish to a really exciting championship if you ask me. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a lot of drama because Gukesh was playing amazingly coming into this (eg winning the gold medal on board 1 at the olympiad in crushing style) and Ding had been playing terribly. Then there were 13 games of back and forth with stalwart defending and imaginative computer preparation by both side…

Chess really baffles me Most of the more sophisticated people I know are completely disinterested in sports. Not that they dislike sports, it just never occupies their mind. Sports is a purposeless activity for kids Chess is different from sports in only one way: the loss of very intelligent capable people who could be helping to create the future. Chess is even more tragic than the olympics.

Intelligent people who create the future must choose that path for themselves. Chess isn't preventing people from making that choice. If chess didn't exist, most chess players would probably just be playing some other game instead of STEM careers or whatever your definition of creating the future is. Also plenty of very strong chess players do ultimately wind up pursuing other career paths. And then there's also the fact that a good number of the top chess players have shown themselves to be highly dysfunctional people who are unfit for the professional world such as Bobby Fischer and Vladimir Kramnik.
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