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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#81

Post by raducu »

defrost wrote: post #5
tptacek wrote: post #3

"Nearly all of those who requested assisted dying - around 96% - had a foreseeable natural death. The remaining 4% were granted euthanasia due to having a long-term chronic illness and where a natural death was not imminent". This is basically clickbait; the law is changing how people die of terminal conditions, but only a tiny fraction of those are deaths that really trace to the new law.

The corollary to the article is that almost all deaths in Canada result from severe or chronic medical conditions .. and now 5% of those cases are resolved via voluntary euthanasia.

[flagged]

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#82

Post by tpoacher »

People have made arguments against abuse in vulnerable populations, which I think is an important argument. But one thing that I really haven't seen explored, and specifically where this applies to suicidal ideation, is the extent to which this is considered a 'condition' or not.

The human body / brain has extremely powerful mechanisms for ensuring certain 'drives' that are essential for the survival and propagation as a species. This is what is biologically 'normal' / 'healthy'. Whether we agree with these drives or not philosophically is another thing. But if someone is anorexic, we recognise that their drive for hunger has been compromised, and make sure to restore it. We don't go "oh it's ok, their desire not to eat is voluntary". Psychiatric diseases are complex. To just assume "will" can never be compromised in disease is naive. And equally more naive is to assume that there is no action that one could do to restore the diseased processes such that that will would be reversed.

So the fact that when it comes to suicidal ideation we are less prone to say "this is a disease which circumvents the brain's normal processes that create the imperative urge to survive, leaving one suicidal", and we just go "wouldn't it be nice if they could end their life peacefully without consequences" is bizzare.

Note that in the situation where a degree of suicidality is not the main issue, and we're talking about palliation by physicians, current laws and practices absolutely do not prevent a doctor from taking actions that are intended to palliate rather than prolong a life of suffering. So the euthanasia bill isn't really about that. It's about supporting people who actively want to die, by providing "assistance". Discussing whether their circumstances warrant them wanting to die is a red herring, no matter how dire those circumstances may be.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#83

Post by swat535 »

nurettin wrote: post #64
gnfargbl wrote: post #41

During the recent debate around the Assisted Dying Bill in the UK, I listened to a radio phone-in in which a palliative care doctor explained that it wasn't possible to relieve all suffering for all patients. They relayed an example of a person who had spent their last days vomiting fully-formed faeces. If we can prevent five, ten or perhaps twenty percent of people having gruesome deaths, then not doing so feels lik…

Even if this is true, it appeals to extremes to make a point. People agajnst the motion are against the misuses of assisted suicide due to conditions that may get better in time, or misunderstandings, or conditions of a mental nature which may change or be cured.

That’s part of it, however they are also against it from a morality and ethical point of view, with the central argument being that you can’t take an innocent person’s life, no matter how “good” you think your intentions are.

Basically they uphold the value of life above all else, including one’s desire to end it. By the same token, they are against any form of suicide.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#84

Post by eddd-ddde »

tpoacher wrote: post #82

People have made arguments against abuse in vulnerable populations, which I think is an important argument. But one thing that I really haven't seen explored, and specifically where this applies to suicidal ideation, is the extent to which this is considered a 'condition' or not. The human body / brain has extremely powerful mechanisms for ensuring certain 'drives' that are essential for the survival and propagation…

A very interesting point. But would you say the same about having offspring? If one can decide to not exercise their reproductive rights peacefully, why can't someone exercise the rights over their own death. Do you want to "cure" people that don't want to have kids? What constitutes a "normal" drive.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#85

Post by tivert »

ben30 wrote: post #13

Fifteen years ago, flying into Vancouver, a local told me charities would give homeless people one-way bus tickets there from colder regions of Canada to prevent winter deaths. No return tickets in spring. Calls into question what we consider "charitable" when the solution is just moving vulnerable people elsewhere. Worrying parallel: will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care an…

> Worrying parallel: will euthanasia become another "solution" for those who can't afford proper care and treatment? Moving homeless people to warmer cities and offering euthanasia to those who can't afford treatment both avoid fixing the underlying problems.

Almost certainly. IIRC, in Canada there have already been cases where people got euthanasia mainly because their disability payments were insufficient.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#86

Post by tivert »

deepburner wrote: post #80
utopicwork wrote: post #78

"But what if someone wants to kill themselves its against their rights for them to be restricted from doing so" We dont need to make it easier for people to kill themselves we need it to be easier to live a fulfilling life so they don't want to

Good luck helping somebody paralyzed from the neck down live a fulfilling life.

> Good luck helping somebody paralyzed from the neck down live a fulfilling life.

Honestly, you seem to suffer from a lack of imagination. There are famous examples of people profoundly paralyzed who most likely lived fulfilling lives (e.g. Stephen Hawking), and I believe there's research the people's happiness tends to return to baseline after both very good and very bad events.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#87

Post by moribvndvs »

utopicwork wrote: post #78

"But what if someone wants to kill themselves its against their rights for them to be restricted from doing so" We dont need to make it easier for people to kill themselves we need it to be easier to live a fulfilling life so they don't want to

From the article:

> Nearly all of those who requested assisted dying - around 96% - had a foreseeable natural death. The remaining 4% were granted euthanasia due to having a long-term chronic illness and where a natural death was not imminent. The average age of those seeking assisted dying was around 77 years old, with cancer being the most frequent underlying medical condition.

It’s ridiculous to jump to a conclusion that these are simply people that aren’t “fulfilled” enough.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#89

Post by mindslight »

raducu wrote: post #81
defrost wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corollary to the article is that almost all deaths in Canada result from severe or chronic medical conditions .. and now 5% of those cases are resolved via voluntary euthanasia.

[flagged]

>> The corollary to the article is that almost all deaths in Canada result from severe or chronic medical conditions .. and now 5% of those cases are resolved via voluntary euthanasia.

> A strong argument for euthanasia always was that it would be exceedingly rare, but 5% of all deaths is not exceedingly rare.

You talked right past the actual point being made, to beat a straw man instead. Being downvoted or shunned for not actually engaging with a topic yet condemning it anyway is not equivalent to being canceled.

And as far as the overall culture war reprise dynamic, I don't see much difference in having to placate the egos of HR drones talking about diversity and the previous culture of having to placate the egos of traditional business bureaucrats waxing poetically about the virtues of mega golf or spending money on a boat. Either way you just smile, nod, and fit in, or you forge your own way outside of the pop culture power structure.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#90

Post by fatbird »

betaby wrote: post #88

[flagged]

There are around 50,000 MAID deaths a year now. In the linked story, one employee was fired for making four veterans feel pressured to consider the option of MAID.

This is obviously inappropriate behaviour, but also just as obviously an outlier. And the story you linked here is linked several other times in this thread. If this is happening monthly, there should be many more examples.

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