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Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

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Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#101
post #15

The recent rash of articles on HN re: sexism leaves me feeling hopeful that our industry is inching closer to being a place were women feel welcome. I would love to see men handing out these cards too.

No, those articles leave me depressed because of all the idiotic sexists that rear their ugly head in the comments.

I mean: What. The. Fuck.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#102

The way to reduce this type of sexism and increase understanding is through more interaction, and not less. Yellow and red cards may achieve segregation, but they'll also introduce fear into the mix. A man who receives one of these cards, for whatever reason, will think twice before he talks to a girl at a conference again, just as a girl who has been grabbed once at Defcon thinks twice before ever going to Defcon ag…

A little fear on the part of a man given one of these cards isn't equivalent to the fear of a woman who has been grabbed.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#103

Does this happen at non-IT parties where a lot of men gather to get drunk and to try and socialize? I admit I'm not much of a party person, but from what I have seen, the answer is yes. I do not believe this has got anything to do with IT nor with sexism. If you are an attractive woman (relative to the attending male population), you are going to attract attention. That is how men are wired. That is our culture. Men…

> I do not believe this has got anything to do with sexism > That is our culture Has it ever occurred to you that "our culture" might be a bit sexist? > Men have to approach women, or they don't get laid 1. Approach doesn't have to mean sexual harassment 2. Women can like sex too. And women can approach men too. mind blowing, no? > He probably needed to do something like that and get away with it to be happy? What? W…

News flash: all men, deep down, view (attractive) women as a potential means to their sexual gratification. We cannot suppress it, short of, you know, lopping it off. We also happen to respect, admire, love, and look up to a good deal of women...but that would not make a very interesting article to talk about that stuff.

EDIT: for those who don't understand what I am saying, let me clarify:

Take special note of my words above, particularly "DEEP DOWN" -- by this, I mean at the subconscious level, the id, human nature, whatever you want to call it. Yes, I can control my sex-drive like anyone else, and I don't go around raping women because I feel sexual attraction to them. Just as well, I am capable of feeling love without sexual connotations, but deep down I understand that the reason my brain loves is because it has found a worthy mate. Argue with Scientific American, not me, if you have a problem with that.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#104

Maybe the title is link bait, but I don't think this is "sexism" by definition. Sexism: "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." A bunch of males were hitting on the author, crassly or awkwardly, but they were not denying the author equal rights. If a female asked a male to show their privates, no one would call it "sexism"; it might be rude, uncalled for, or strange…

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you miss the academic discussion on sexism by AUs.

You dictionary won’t help you there. Try to actually learn something about the topic, and not by reading a fucking dictionary. That’s useless.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#105
post #45

Prediction: The sexism in IT problem will never end. Here's my hypothesis: 1. Women and men are different. We see this played out all around us, all the time, both sides happily make and laugh at jokes about it, and no one has a problem acknowledging this fact during discussion of other topics, but when certain subjects are being discussed, these very same people will assure you, with total sincerity, that there is n…

>"There is something about IT that either appeals especially to males, or males are particularly skilled at." Oh please, have a look outside North America and Europe. And at history. Chineese hackers and 'IT professionals' are of all genders. Hell, even in backwards US&Europe women are and has been computer heroes. Grace Hopper ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper ) and Ada Lovelace ( http://sv.wikipedia.org/w…

Please. Yes, there are some very skilled female programmers. But they are very much the minority, as the fact that you had to go back 150 years to find a good example shows.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#106

The way to reduce this type of sexism and increase understanding is through more interaction, and not less. Yellow and red cards may achieve segregation, but they'll also introduce fear into the mix. A man who receives one of these cards, for whatever reason, will think twice before he talks to a girl at a conference again, just as a girl who has been grabbed once at Defcon thinks twice before ever going to Defcon ag…

Grabbing (or touching) a woman is often the only way to get attention in a loud bar. Sometimes males do it because it is a common tactic for approaching women (no really, research shows that if you touch a woman before you speak to her, the odds of a positive reaction are better, as counter-intuitive as it may seem).

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you, or any of your friends, are incapable of appearing in public without [flirting, hitting on and/or touching] another person, the problem very much does not lie with the person on the receiving end. [... Wait what?] Adjusted that for you to illustrate a different perspective.

Sigh. You are deliberately obtuse, aren’t you?

No. Deliberately insightful and helpful, I hope.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#109
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is something about IT that either appeals especially to males, or males are particularly skilled at. I have no idea why. Really? You have no idea? You don't think it might possibly have something to do with sexism in society and in IT culture? From early childhood, girls are taught that the ought to be interested in princesses, dolls, and playing house, while boys are taught that they ought to be interested i…

> Boys get to play with LEGOs without the stigma. But a boy who plays with a Barbie gets the shit beaten out of him. Possibly even by his own parents. > while boys who behave the same way are praised for being "assertive". ... and develop stress-related problems at a higher rate, and die years younger than women. Everything cuts both ways. Everything.

> But a boy who plays with a Barbie gets the shit beaten out of him. Possibly even by his own parents.

I already pre-empted this. Read my comment again. Barbies are sex objects. LEGOs are precursors to a respectable career path. It's not a valid comparison.

> and develop stress-related problems at a higher rate, and die years younger than women.

Please, tell me more about how women are systematically oppressing men. Sure, there are some areas in which women have an advantage. The life expectancy thing is likely biological. Many other apparent examples of "reverse sexism" are in fact products of the other kind of sexism - e.g., the oft-cited statistics about divorce law and custody battles - women have an advantage here because society, and the law, tend to see women as being in the domestic sphere while men are supposed to be the ones with careers. Is it sexist? yes. Does it show that sexism isn't an issue? not in the slightest.

Re: Sexism red/yellow cards at Defcon

#110
post #15

The recent rash of articles on HN re: sexism leaves me feeling hopeful that our industry is inching closer to being a place were women feel welcome. I would love to see men handing out these cards too.

I think the same thing, until I read the comments...
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