From where I left • Hacker News Board

Re: From where I left

#271

Post by QuinnyPig » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:21 AM UTC

antirez wrote: post #109

fishtoaster wrote: post #80

I'm really interested in this bit: "the fracture with the community is not about licensing, or at least it’s not mainly about licensing" I wish he'd elaborated a bit more on what he thought it was about. My understanding is that it's 100% about the license. That's certainly why I'll reach for valkey instead of redis next time I need it. That's also what I've heard from everyone else in a similar position. What else w…

For somebody, like you and many others, it was very important to retain an OSI license. But I feel that in general given that the new license is IMHO good for almost every user, from the POV of what they can do with the code, and that the cloud situation was quite self evident, I believe that with better communication, and immediate developments/merges in the core, to counter balance the license switch, many people w…

I hear you, but at the same time it was badly done. I’ve been referring to Redis as “a proprietary fork of Valkey,” and that message has clearly resonated.

Re: From where I left

#272

Post by madeofpalk » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:29 AM UTC

eudoxus wrote: post #255

gpderetta wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affero GPL-style copyleft licenses are an option, although they are treated as radioactive by most companies. A clause that triggers the extensions over GPL only for companies beyond a certain size might make them more platable.

> although they are treated as radioactive by most companies Isn't this reason enough to not consider it an option?

Being radioactive is the reason why it is considered an option.

Re: From where I left

#273

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:34 AM UTC

antirez wrote: post #211

collingreen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this snarky or real? If real, how would this work? If snarky, then :(

Absolutely real: focus on the community, merge things that were now in payed versions of Redis into the core, so that everybody can benefit, contribute positively to the clients space, improve the documentation, and so forth.

[deleted]

Re: From where I left

#274

Post by redkoala » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:39 AM UTC

jcgrillo wrote: post #233

ac29 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company's survival is threatened by people using its open-source software, then maybe it shouldn't be open source. Open source software (to me) says I should be able use the software for any purpose, including commercial ones.

I agree. It seems that "open core"[1] is a failed experiment. I'm hopeful the idea will be replaced either by governments being smarter about the computers, or companies agreeing to sponsor foundations, or... something. But clearly taking venture investment to build OSS and turn it into a profitable enterprise is an idea that has been thoroughly shown to be flawed. [1] aptly named if you think about the nuclear power…

It’s the entire premise of public goods, and the sustainable funding model for that would be through government funding or funding of open source foundations like the CNCF. For example, the IETF standards body is founded by the global charitable organization the Internet Society. How do we continue to build on this public goods funding model for projects like this?

Re: From where I left

#275

Post by skinner_ » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:39 AM UTC

thayne wrote: post #244

skinner_ wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in such a way that could be construed as reneging on your promise Nothing could be construed in such a way, because such a reneging is not possible.

Well in this case, antirez literally promised[1] they wouldn't change the license of the core away from BSD, and then Redis Labs did just that, and now antirez is speaking favorably of that decision. [1]: https://antirez.com/news/120

Wow, I wasn't aware. @jart, do you have any harsh comments on the actual reneging of an actual promise? @antirez, do you have any kind of comments?

Re: From where I left

#276

Post by lmm » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:51 AM UTC

benatkin wrote: post #235

jonny_eh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and remains truly open-source, unlike Redis.

Redis from Redis Labs, available under a choice of its own license or the SSPL, is pretty close to truly open-source , IMO closer to it than the BUSL, which is another source-available license. It is pretty similar to the AGPLv3, and they even credibly applied to get it OSI-approved. https://blog.tidelift.com/what-i-learned-from-the-server-sid... https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/11291/how-to-... What it…

Every license is a unique snowflake, but if you're going to stay sane and get on with your life you need some categories and lines. Redis is not available under a license that is open-source in any of the usual senses - not OSI-approved, not DFSG-compatible, not FSF-approved. That is a big deal. Matrix remains open source under a license that meets all those criteria. It's not a technical distinction, it's the line in the sand that stops open-source from being whittled away to nothing.

Re: From where I left

#277

Post by erik_seaberg » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 1:51 AM UTC

bornfreddy wrote: post #198

bitexploder wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud providers offer productized versions of Redis, so their interest in Valkey should be obvious :)

Yep. It is still a bit ironic that the community rallied behind Big Tech instead of a small startup though. Just saying.

Around competitive prices and terms rather than a monopoly.

Re: From where I left

#278

Post by alberth » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 2:13 AM UTC

I'm somewhat surprised no one has mentioned Commons Clause.

https://commonsclause.com

Re: From where I left

#279

Post by stephenr » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 2:20 AM UTC

BeefySwain wrote: post #130

All the conversations about SSPL seem to go the same way: - Someone complains about the extra restrictions imposed on AWS (lets be real, it's basically just about AWS) - People point out that SSPL is basically AGPL+, and that for the vast vast majority of people it doesn't make any difference - People counter that the SSPL is written ambiguously/untested in court, and so while it might seem like it's AGPL+ and doesn'…

People keep talking about how the licence change was to prevent the likes of AWS from "taking and giving nothing back"... and completely ignore that AWS was paying an engineer to contribute to Redis in a significant way.

Re: From where I left

#280

Post by acmeian » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 2:22 AM UTC

bornfreddy wrote: post #198

bitexploder wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud providers offer productized versions of Redis, so their interest in Valkey should be obvious :)

Yep. It is still a bit ironic that the community rallied behind Big Tech instead of a small startup though. Just saying.

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