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Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

windowsreport.com

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Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#51

Post by zoezoezoezoe »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #40
elashri wrote: post #16

I understand that many people here have a bad taste of Mozilla's recent actions in many aspects. But the reality here is that this is at worst removing something that almost nobody respected. It was based on honor system and even in Switzerland they do have random inspections for honor system. Browsers never had any enforcement of this feature. And ironically it was used as additional data point of tracking privacy a…

the conversation / system is rigged. how it should have been done in a fair way: 1. assume the user by default does not want to be tracked and make do-not-track opt-out. 2. have it running for a few years and gradually increase the heat on the discussion that nobody respects it. If it would've been done this way it would've been newsworthy and maybe would've been considered as something to enforce via regulation (at…

How can we know you didnt want to be stabbed if we dont stab you first?

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#52

Post by JohnFen »

registeredcorn wrote: post #44
n144q wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Websites don't just "ignore" DNT, they actively use DNT to improve tracking. From a product perspective, this is an additional option in their settings page that is confusing and marginally useless. I work on creating user facing products as my job, and I 100% support this decision. I'll be honest: nobody is going to stop Firefox because of this, because it does not affect their life in any way or manner.

Per oytis: "An obvious solution would be to turn it on by default" I do agree with your point on people continuing to use Firefox in spite of this. Most people are not invested in the details, or don't care about security/privacy, or can't be bothered to figure out which other browser option is best for their use case. My annoyance is more so on their behalf - that average people will probably be unaware of what secu…

> It irks me, however, that they no longer even have the option.

I think the major point is that they don't have the option right now. The percentage of websites that honor DNT is a rounding error, so the existence of it -- at best -- gives the illusion of privacy protection. In my opinion, the illusion of security is worse than not having security but knowing it.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#53

Post by timbit42 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #17

Browsers need a "keep my cookies" button next to the url bar, separate cookie jar per domain, and then by default, delete all the cookies when you close the window. No EU cookie prompts would be needed, no "this feature does not work without third party cookies, no DNT, no nothing... silently accept all the cookies, and then delete them. (and other persistent storage too). Want to stay logged in? Press the "keep the…

So make the Cookie Autodelete add-on into a browser feature.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#54

Post by barnabee »

n144q wrote: post #22

About time. It has never achieved anything meaningful for protecting your privacy, if not helping the opposite by providing yet another signal to help uniquely identify a user and improve tracking. Although, anti-tracking in general is basically fighting a losing battle. Go to https://amiunique.org/ and you'll see why. I use Firefox with all possible protection mechanics -- "strict" tracking protection mode, uBlock o…

What I'd love to see is a default JavaScript environment (ideally across all browsers, but at least in FF) that is sufficiently basic as to be identical for all users with an icon appearing in the address bar when a site wishes to use advanced features that might enable tracking, so that these can be enabled on a case-by-case basis.

Low script rather than no script, if you will.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#55

Post by troyvit »

elashri wrote: post #16

I understand that many people here have a bad taste of Mozilla's recent actions in many aspects. But the reality here is that this is at worst removing something that almost nobody respected. It was based on honor system and even in Switzerland they do have random inspections for honor system. Browsers never had any enforcement of this feature. And ironically it was used as additional data point of tracking privacy a…

I have to second this. It's a voluntary rule used by a browser with the market share that looks more like a rounding error. If this is all somebody was using to depend on their online privacy then they need a class.

In that light removing it might push a few people to apply more protections to their browser and be an overall (if extremely minor) win for privacy.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#56

Post by registeredcorn »

JohnFen wrote: post #52
registeredcorn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per oytis: "An obvious solution would be to turn it on by default" I do agree with your point on people continuing to use Firefox in spite of this. Most people are not invested in the details, or don't care about security/privacy, or can't be bothered to figure out which other browser option is best for their use case. My annoyance is more so on their behalf - that average people will probably be unaware of what secu…

> It irks me, however, that they no longer even have the option. I think the major point is that they don't have the option right now . The percentage of websites that honor DNT is a rounding error, so the existence of it -- at best -- gives the illusion of privacy protection. In my opinion, the illusion of security is worse than not having security but knowing it.

>The percentage of websites that honor DNT is a rounding error

Referring to my previous comment: "This is spurious reasoning. 'Many' is neither a percentage, or a basis for justification. Many people ignore speed limits - so what?" Privacy configurations are not a popularity vote. Instead, they are an implementation of software design. E.g. "No one" bothers with PGP, therefore it should be supported.

A more charitable description of DNT, instead of saying it is "not an option" would be that it is a privacy option that is poorly enforced - exceedingly so!

I will of course agree wholeheartedly that the effectiveness of that privacy option, which is independent of its implementation and design, is ineffective. I also agree that it has a theoretical potential to give a user "false optimism", because of its failure of enforcement, but I don't see that second point as being inherently harmful.

I suppose it comes down to whether you want to take a pill that has "reduced effectiveness" at fighting pancreatic cancer, or if you prefer the several seconds saved in not needing to swallow. In my mind, even if the pill sucks and has a failure rate of 99.7/100, it seems bizarre to snatch it away from someone who would like to take it anyway.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#57

Post by bguebert »

dylan604 wrote: post #42

I think the browser should behave differently when Do Not Track is enabled. Instead of whatever it does now, it should be updated so that when the user selects it the browser automatically installs uBO, privacy badger, etc. After all, that's what the user really needs to have the browser respect their wishes of not being tracked. So rather than eliminate it with another thing that is nothing more than a name changes,…

I always though something like ublock origin should be built in with a standard format for the block list rules so people could just use different rules lists if they wanted to.

It would be nice to have a feature for enable/disable javascript per site also.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#58

Post by mixmastamyk »

bguebert wrote: post #57
dylan604 wrote: post #42

I think the browser should behave differently when Do Not Track is enabled. Instead of whatever it does now, it should be updated so that when the user selects it the browser automatically installs uBO, privacy badger, etc. After all, that's what the user really needs to have the browser respect their wishes of not being tracked. So rather than eliminate it with another thing that is nothing more than a name changes,…

I always though something like ublock origin should be built in with a standard format for the block list rules so people could just use different rules lists if they wanted to. It would be nice to have a feature for enable/disable javascript per site also.

Believe it does. Also noscript exists.

Re: Firefox removes "do not track" feature support

#59

Post by mixmastamyk »

timbit42 wrote: post #53
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #17

Browsers need a "keep my cookies" button next to the url bar, separate cookie jar per domain, and then by default, delete all the cookies when you close the window. No EU cookie prompts would be needed, no "this feature does not work without third party cookies, no DNT, no nothing... silently accept all the cookies, and then delete them. (and other persistent storage too). Want to stay logged in? Press the "keep the…

So make the Cookie Autodelete add-on into a browser feature.

Already a checkbox in prefs. I use it.
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