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Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

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Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#71

Post by Invictus0 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22
jansen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every shop is a small shop when it starts out. Maybe give these guys a break?

I appreciate the sentiment, and I agree, but this really matters. There have been so many stories of fintechs collapsing recently, where people were really just trying to make an extra few percentage points of yield, and then people lost all of their savings. I also like to root for the little guy, but the trust barrier will be the largest hurdle I think that this company needs to overcome, and so it's fair to discus…

Please recall this is the website that discusses startups. It is absolutely not fair to use "you are not a big company" as a point of criticism

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#73

Post by runako »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I saw the "Your Money is Secure" section, but after things like the Synapse fiasco, I would like to get confirmation from you. It says my money would be SIPC insured, which means if anything goes missing (obviously not through loss of equity value, but through missing funds or a ledger bug), I get my money back, up to the SIPC limit, right? I just want to ensure this isn't the same situation with fintechs that say yo…

This from the site feels reassuring: "Your funds are held in your name at Apex Clearing, one of the largest US Custodians holding over $114B in funds."

The "in your name" part is specifically what I was looking for.

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#74

Post by gruez »

taway789aaa6 wrote: post #49
wrsh07 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pfof is woefully misunderstood In general, citadel wants to pay to trade with retail investors because it knows it isn't going to face adverse selection. So it will give them tighter bid/ask ratios (this is better for the customer) than they would get if they were trading in the open market, citadel isn't going to get hosed by one of them (because there's no adverse selection) It's win win win

> PFOF and excessive off-exchange trading persist because so many trading platforms rely on the revenue it generates, essentially productizing their clients. Defenders of PFOF have claimed that retail brokers who route to high-speed traders (in exchange for PFOF) provide better price execution for investors and that it’s a net positive, despite creating an inherent misalignment between these platforms and their custo…

>and despite public evidence to the contrary

Sounds serious, I wonder what it is...

>"410 The author deleted this Medium story".

doesn't look promising. The rest of the paragraph fails to state any concrete harm, instead focusing on abstract issues like "misalignment between these platforms and their customers", and "little by way of self-regulation ".

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#75

Post by jkulubya »

taway789aaa6 wrote: post #53
shred45 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Order flow in dark pools does impact the price of a security. The market maker will eventually need to trade out of that position. If there is aggregate buying pressure in the dark pool, they will adjust their quotes in both dark and lit markets.

> The market maker will eventually need to trade out of that position This is why Citadel has $60+ billion dollars of "securities sold not yet purchased" on their financial statements. They have sold $60+ BILLION of shares to investors and not yet bought the underlying securities. So when exactly will that $60 billion of buy pressure hit the market?

Leaving aside the veracity of that figure, if they've sold $60B of shares they don't own then they must've sold shares they borrowed in some way, and that shows up in the demand/supply. Someone (or someones) in the market would know.

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#76

Post by sumanyusharma »

I'm actually pretty interested in what you're building. Sure, Vanguard and Fidelity are well-established giants, but they've barely moved beyond standard ETFs for decades. Having the option to tweak weightings at a more granular level and do daily tax-loss harvesting at scale seems like a genuine step forward.

I also like that you're transparent about how you might eventually introduce additional revenue streams like margin lending or maybe even PFOF. Knowing that upfront is better than a sudden terms-of-service surprise down the road. Still, I'd hope you'll consider giving users some say over how their shares are handled — like opting out of lending — so your incentives stay aligned over the long run.

Congrats on hitting $10M AUM. I'm rooting for more low-fee alternatives that keep the user in the loop!

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#77

Post by parsimo2010 »

So a “typical” ETF costs me about 0.15% year, or around $150 for every $100k I have invested. While $12 per year would certainly save some money, it’s coffee money vs. life savings money. I think you’re going to have a hard time convincing me to move from offerings from companies like Barclays, Schwab, or Vanguard. Plus, zero fees doesn’t save me any money unless you can stay within 0.15% of the big index funds you’re going to be compared too. If you’re selling to harvest tax losses, I’ll bet there are some deviations at the fractions of a percent level that might erase all my savings.

Move fast and break things works great for computer startups, but if you want me to move my life savings over I need more confidence that you’re going to be around in 40 years and still have my accounts intact. And if I’m not bringing my life savings over, then it’s not worth the effort, because investments at the $10k level don’t really save me money.

Good luck finding early adopters who have money to throw at investment schemes.

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#78

Post by bachmeier »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #16

I saw the "Your Money is Secure" section, but after things like the Synapse fiasco, I would like to get confirmation from you. It says my money would be SIPC insured, which means if anything goes missing (obviously not through loss of equity value, but through missing funds or a ledger bug), I get my money back, up to the SIPC limit, right? I just want to ensure this isn't the same situation with fintechs that say yo…

> I'm just really, really wary of new fintech products to save like .3% on fees when I hear all these horror stories of people trusting fintech startups with their money any then losing 95% of their deposits like the Yotta customers.

That's immediately the scenario that comes to mind when I see any of these offerings (this one might be perfectly legit, but the reality is that I have no way to know). Then I remember George Costanza exploiting a loophole to save money by seeing a holistic healer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uVSKgMpnuo

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#79

Post by koolba »

Invictus0 wrote: post #71
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the sentiment, and I agree, but this really matters. There have been so many stories of fintechs collapsing recently, where people were really just trying to make an extra few percentage points of yield, and then people lost all of their savings. I also like to root for the little guy, but the trust barrier will be the largest hurdle I think that this company needs to overcome, and so it's fair to discus…

Please recall this is the website that discusses startups. It is absolutely not fair to use "you are not a big company" as a point of criticism

It's absolutely fair when you're evaluating a potential fiduciary. I personally don't consider small regional banks secure beyond the FDIC limits for the same reason. But one of the "big guys" is fine as they're too big to fail.

Re: Launch HN: Double (YC W24) – Index Investing with 0% Expense Ratios

#80

Post by nick3443 »

dayone1 wrote: post #11

1) are you going to sell your trade flow to Citadel / market makers like Robinhood and your competitors do? That's the dirty secret way of making money that you seem to have completely excluded. The reality is that adds up to substantial "invisible" fees that the investor has no transparency over because you sell your trade flows to them and they make a higher than normal spread. And the whole "doesn't matter if we s…

Be careful lending out your shares (for example on ibkr) you can lose your qualified dividend status.
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