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Vim Creep

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Re: Vim Creep

#121

Post by tsm »

adito wrote: post #104
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #73

This is an extremely awesome, fantastic, exhilarating use of hyperbole. What I gained from the article wasn't any explanation of why Vim is great; indeed, there was little included in this respect, aside from moving "entire blocks of code with the flick of a finger." Even the cool feeling of proficiency you get from knowing a tool well, and the fun of getting to show off a skill to a "how did he do that!?" audience w…

And he end it with :wq This part make me smile... Wonder what others tough when see that?

For rhetorical effect, `:wq` is right. But in the real world, `:x` is the better choice.

Re: Vim Creep

#122

Post by dredmorbius »

babarock wrote: post #93
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #73

This is an extremely awesome, fantastic, exhilarating use of hyperbole. What I gained from the article wasn't any explanation of why Vim is great; indeed, there was little included in this respect, aside from moving "entire blocks of code with the flick of a finger." Even the cool feeling of proficiency you get from knowing a tool well, and the fun of getting to show off a skill to a "how did he do that!?" audience w…

Also, years of evangelism will teach you that you cannot convince someone that Vim is better , let alone great . A lot of the propaganda out there starts by telling people "you're doing it wrong! Let me show you the better way!". Vim is one of these tools that isn't obviously better, so that you don't really understand its power until you try it (for a few months or so). I enjoyed this article exactly because the aut…

Many worthwhile revelations are inherently experiential. There are a very, very few people who are sufficiently gifted in communication to be able to sell large numbers of people on them. In most cases, though, people simply have to achieve enlightenment or experience the concept for themselves.

The Zen koan of the seeker told he would find enlightenment by acquiring the shirt of the happiest man in the world ... who turns out to be shirtless ... captures something of this essence.

Re: Vim Creep

#123

Post by lelele »

crazygringo wrote: post #13

This feels like an article about a religion or cult, not a software program. I just don't get it. Ever since newer editors got block editing or multiple insertion cursors, and RegEx find & replace across multiple files, and searching filenames to open... I feel like I've already got everything I need! What am I missing out on? I don't feel like my text editor holds back my productivity. Using something like Sublime,…

For me, it's about the interface. In descending order: intuitive, consistent, modular, comfortable, portable.

Intuitive: most commands resemble natural language, without awkward or arbitrary mappings. For instance:

- w: (forward) word;

- cw: change (forward) word;

- c2w: change 2 (forward) words;

- 2cw: twice change word;

- ciw: change inner word;

There is no intervening translation. For instance, to change a word in mainstream editors, you delete it first, then start entering the new text. In Vim, it's one command: you think "change forward word", you issue the "change forward word" command.

Consistent. For instance, double letters work on lines:

- cc: change line;

- dd: delete line;

- yy: yank line;

and capital letters work till the end of the line:

- C: change till the end of the line;

- D: delete till the end of the line;

- Y: yank till the end of the line (not so in vanilla Vim, but I've remapped it because consistency matters to me).

Modular: you compose commands. For instance, / is the search command and then:

- d/testo: delete until the next occurrence of "testo";

- c/testo: change until the next occurrence of "testo";

- etc.

Comfortable: limited usage of modifier keys. Vim saved me from RSI.

Portable: letters and Shift keys are in the same position on any keyboard, be it on a desktop, a laptop, etc. whilst each laptop manufactures has its own idea about where Control, Alt, Arrows, PageUp and PageDown should be.

Hope this helps.

Re: Vim Creep

#124

Post by wonderzombie »

xutopia wrote: post #34
crazygringo wrote: post #13

This feels like an article about a religion or cult, not a software program. I just don't get it. Ever since newer editors got block editing or multiple insertion cursors, and RegEx find & replace across multiple files, and searching filenames to open... I feel like I've already got everything I need! What am I missing out on? I don't feel like my text editor holds back my productivity. Using something like Sublime,…

You really have to sit down and see a vim user work to start to understand. In vim you don't just move around with arrows, then delete and then replace the text you want. What happens is you can use noun-verb associations to do things. For example on a line like this: var foo = "bar"; I could be at the beginning of the line and type the following keys to change the inside of the quotation marks: ci"baz In sublime I w…

Is there a reason why you wouldn't use Vintage with ST2? ci works better in Vim, for sure. But ci is still incredibly useful with Vintage:

    f"ci"baz

Re: Vim Creep

#125

Post by lelele »

why-el wrote: post #59
recursive wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're into that sort of thing, you can do Ctrl + F, bar in Sublime too. Most of the comparisons in this discussion between vim and non vim demonstrate high proficiency in vim, but not as much elsewhere. Of course you are more proficient in the tool you know best.

Exactly, and does it really matter? I mean, how many people in usesthis.com actually use Vim? And they are all brilliant people.

Brilliant people don't need to be brilliant in everything. You can use lesser tools and still accomplish a lot.

Re: Vim Creep

#126

Post by lelele »

rahoulb wrote: post #113
recursive wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're into that sort of thing, you can do Ctrl + F, bar in Sublime too. Most of the comparisons in this discussion between vim and non vim demonstrate high proficiency in vim, but not as much elsewhere. Of course you are more proficient in the tool you know best.

As a heavy user of Sublime, Coda 2 and someone that is still getting to grips with vim, I'd say the real advantage of vim is you can do all of that over ssh with minimal keystrokes over a crappy connection.

Actually, this is almost the scenario for which Vim's father was designed.

Re: Vim Creep

#127

Post by danneu »

freshhawk wrote: post #120
crazygringo wrote: post #13

This feels like an article about a religion or cult, not a software program. I just don't get it. Ever since newer editors got block editing or multiple insertion cursors, and RegEx find & replace across multiple files, and searching filenames to open... I feel like I've already got everything I need! What am I missing out on? I don't feel like my text editor holds back my productivity. Using something like Sublime,…

People will get into the whole verb-noun editing language, which is great, but the biggest and first real world improvement is much simpler: You don't use your mouse to move the cursor around a document. After a while you just look at the document and your fingers move and the cursor moves, you can get anywhere in the file in just a few jumps. It's not the same as using a mouse or a touchpad where you need visual fee…

I think that's exactly it.

Explaining nifty Vim backflips is the wrong way to sell Vim. A 15 minute session of `vimtutor` was enough to enlighten me. If I had needed a proficiency in Vim to appreciate Vim, I would've never started.

Re: Vim Creep

#129

Post by msluyter »

lelele wrote: post #123
crazygringo wrote: post #13

This feels like an article about a religion or cult, not a software program. I just don't get it. Ever since newer editors got block editing or multiple insertion cursors, and RegEx find & replace across multiple files, and searching filenames to open... I feel like I've already got everything I need! What am I missing out on? I don't feel like my text editor holds back my productivity. Using something like Sublime,…

For me, it's about the interface. In descending order: intuitive, consistent, modular, comfortable, portable. Intuitive: most commands resemble natural language, without awkward or arbitrary mappings. For instance: - w: (forward) word; - cw: change (forward) word; - c2w: change 2 (forward) words; - 2cw: twice change word; - ciw: change inner word; There is no intervening translation. For instance, to change a word in…

I'm sorry, but although I'd agree vim is awesome, there's no way I would call its commands "intuitive." Take 'y', for 'yank.' Would anyone really argue that the word "yank" is a natural way of expressing "copy?" "Yeah mom, just yank and paste that into an e-mail... " And there's nothing inherently intuitive about '/' for searching, unless you're already familiar with unix commands like sed. Or ":" for go to line. Or "x" for delete letter. Or "jkl;" for movement, for that matter. Etc... etc... etc...

A lot of people here have made the point that vim has a steep learning curve that eventually pays off, which, to me implies that intuitiveness is either lacking or besides the point. Still, I agree with your other points. I'm thinking of going back to it to minimize hand strain.

Re: Vim Creep

#130

Post by helpbygrace »

guscost wrote: post #96
kevinalexbrown wrote: post #73

This is an extremely awesome, fantastic, exhilarating use of hyperbole. What I gained from the article wasn't any explanation of why Vim is great; indeed, there was little included in this respect, aside from moving "entire blocks of code with the flick of a finger." Even the cool feeling of proficiency you get from knowing a tool well, and the fun of getting to show off a skill to a "how did he do that!?" audience w…

I recently discovered a way to learn Vim without fear: learn undo ('u') first! If you know that, you can just mess around with Vim commands until you inevitably screw something up, undo the changes, relax, take a deep breath, and Google whatever you're trying to do.

and Ctrl + R for redo.
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