181–190 of 206 posts
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If you don’t have this extra feature, all your safety depends on you. That still is the case.
People exhibit different behaviors of risk taking when they know there are safety systems in place to protect them.
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The space between houses is smaller, and the houses have much smaller garages. However the house themselves are similar size.
They really aren't. My house is a 1250 sq ft 4 bedroom house. It gets comments from friends and family for being relatively large for a 4 br here, since the norm is 1000 sq ft for a 4 bedroom. Similar style houses in the US seem to be about 2000 sq ft from a property search.
I love my sawstop, it's a great machine. Often times when a product has some patent-protected feature, the product itself is substandard, but I have not found that case with sawstop. It's one of my highest quality tools. It would be nice if the mechanism wasn't so destructive. I accidentally had an aluminum fence just a fraction of a mm too close, and it touched the blade. I was using a dado stack, and it did a numbe…
The whole "releasing our patent" is simply SawStop's way of trying to lock out the competition. All their competitors (including Bosch) have said that it will take several years before they could develop an alternative product leaving them in violation.
Finally, the regulation SawStop is trying to force doesn't even solve the injury problems for a few reasons.
The biggest is that CPSC does NOT affect commercial saws. As it turns out, hobbyists don't have as many injuries as you might think because they don't use their saws all the time and they have a very healthy respect for them (there are exceptions of course). Most serious injuries happen because the guy at the commercial shop has become too complacent and made a mistake after a long day at work. This ruling does nothing to change that situation.
You also can't fix stupid. If blade guards and riving knives are left on saws, the chances of injury are incredibly low, but people choose to remove one or both of these. They'll also turn off the safety features and do something they shouldn't. SawStop safety is over-represented because the people who spend the extra money for one are already predisposed to take safety seriously.
This leads to the price issue. Table saw prices will go up from $220 up to a minimum of $600 or more. This increases the risk of someone not having that much money and then turning their circular saw upside down making an incredibly dangerous table saw without a blade guard, riving knife, or even a parallel fence massively increasing the baseline risk for injury.
I love the idea of SawStop and I think it's an amazing safety device, but after reading the arguments on all sides, I think we should leave the current saws situation alone and instead simply require each saw manufacturer to offer at least one AIM model in their product lineup by 2032 or so (while maybe getting the courts to fix up the colossal screwups they made with the SawStop patents). This will give them time to develop alternatives and maybe drive down prices over time until it finally (hopefully) makes economic sense to only sell AIM devices.
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There's no way I'm trusting the safety of my fingers to today's ML abilities reading a live camera feed.
If you don’t have this extra feature, all your safety depends on you. That still is the case.
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If you don’t have this extra feature, all your safety depends on you. That still is the case.
Do you work for Tesla FSD? That's exactly their stance. If I'm still dependent, then it doesn't do what it says on the tin. I want my money back.
“Ok, here’s your money”
“By the way, to use the feature, you actually just do it yourself and then pretend the product did it”
>, I have an altendorf handguard sliding table saw, which will stop as fast as the sawstop, The alternative approaches from other industrial saw manufacturers that are "non-contact non-destructive" are interesting: - cameras and machine learning used by Altendorf "Hand Guard": https://www.altendorfgroup.com/en-us/machines/altendorf-hand... - inductive proximity (same science as Theremin[1]) used by Felder "PCS Preven…
Kind of seems like the opposite. I could be wrong, but in the case of the saw the cameras/AI are probably more expensive to develop and deploy than the inductive sensing. With the cars though, it's the cheaper option for sure.
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Yeah, they aren't comparable in the least. These companies use it for market segmentation. You'll only get this on the ridiculously expensive table saws. Whereas a Sawstop cabinet saw (the industrial one!), still expensive for an American-style table saw, is a fraction of the price. In the case of Felder, 10% the price!
Totally agree, and wouldn't really comment on it except to say that the cheapest Sawstop is $1-3k even on blackfriday. That's not really in the same league as other jobsite saws that are $100-300. Each one really is a ~10x step in cost above the other. Of course quality and safety/reliability are higher too, and I know which I'd buy. But, comparable only sort-of.
Still a pretty fair assessment, though.
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Lot of replies here but none of them have really hit the mark. European table saws are fundamentally different than American table saws, where the entire section left of the blade slides forward. Culturally it seems Europeans believe this is "safer" than the American style and therefore they don't need the blade safety mechanism. Personally I think that's nonsense, and apparently so do some of the companies because t…
Also dados are prohibited (more or less) in the EU. So yes, there are regulatory issues. And btw, I just cannot find a sawstop to buy here (at a human price)
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Optical mice fail with too much dust on the lens. It's risky to depend on a vision system in a machine that is generating dust.
Have you considered that they've thought of this? Seriously. This is company producing high end sliding table saws that cost tens of thousands. They've been at it for over half a century. This is not someone producing a 299 saw as cheaply as possible. They are a German company (ie regulated heavily) and have a ridiculous number of safety standard certifications that test things like "what happens when there is dust"…
I love my sawstop, it's a great machine. Often times when a product has some patent-protected feature, the product itself is substandard, but I have not found that case with sawstop. It's one of my highest quality tools. It would be nice if the mechanism wasn't so destructive. I accidentally had an aluminum fence just a fraction of a mm too close, and it touched the blade. I was using a dado stack, and it did a numbe…
I'm struggling to imagine a scenario where dadoing <1mm from the fence was a good idea in the first place. I'm assuming you're talking about a miter/crosscut fence but still...
Really, I should have sacrificed a crosscut sled for dado usage, but it really chews them up.