CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop • Hacker News Board

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#91

Post by rusteh1 » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:24 AM UTC

moooo99 wrote: post #85

Freak_NL wrote: post #83

The question that bothers me whenever SawStop comes up: why does it appears as if this isn't much of a thing outside of the US? Or is it and I'm just not seeing it from my Dutch viewpoint? Does anyone know of anyone who has written about this discrepancy with some numbers (emergency room admissions, SawStop sales) backing it?

> why does it appears as if this isn't much of a thing outside of the US? Patents. SawStop does not sell outside the US/NA to my knowledge and they hold all the patents required. In 2015 Bosch introduced a system that did essentially the same thing as SawStop, but with a slightly different mechanism. SawStop sued in the US and won against Bosch. Since 2017 SawStop is part of Festool, which explains why their tech is…

Not true. They are widely available and used in Australia.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#92

Post by krisoft » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:32 AM UTC

dyauspitr wrote: post #43

bawolff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that if someone advertizes their saw as safe, but it isn't, then there should be some liability. Like if you make a fake safety saw or imply its much more safe than it actually is you should get in trouble. But surely there must be some middle ground between a company making a fake safety saw, and a good faith effort that isn't quite perfect.

I don’t think any saw manufacturer says anything about their safety besides warning you about not using the riving knife and blade guard.

We are getting confused here.

The claim was "The saw manufacturers all blew off SawStop because they were worried that they would now be liable for any injuries which still occurred."

Meaning that table saw manufacturers were worried if they implement SawStop like safety feature, and they advertise their saws as safer they become liable for times when the technology does not work.

So yes, you appear to be correct what saw manufacturers say about their safety now, but that's not the point we are discussing. The point is that if they add a SawStop like feature and advertise it then they would be talking about the safety of their saws.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#93

Post by ragingroosevelt » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:34 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #89

Freak_NL wrote: post #83

The question that bothers me whenever SawStop comes up: why does it appears as if this isn't much of a thing outside of the US? Or is it and I'm just not seeing it from my Dutch viewpoint? Does anyone know of anyone who has written about this discrepancy with some numbers (emergency room admissions, SawStop sales) backing it?

One reason could also be that the US woodworking culture treats a table saw as an essential tool (especially the basic table saw, without a sliding table), while elsewhere track saws are used more, it seems. If you run commercial production, then you do need a table saw (but one with a sliding table!), but for hobby work you might as well spend some time for track saw setups and be much safer.

I think you're probably right.

I have an older Delta table saw and recently decided to sell it because a miter saw + track saw + some other tools you need anyhow does nearly everything a table saw would do, but uses space way more efficiently.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#94

Post by zo1 » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:43 AM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #3

Usually those fancy 3D displays are miserable on my phone, but the ones on this page pretty much just work. Lovely surprise.

Ironically, previous ones worked beautifully for me but this one fails on my desktop Firefox. Couldn't even select text on the page to copy paste, utter failure.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#95

Post by miunau » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:46 AM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #83

The question that bothers me whenever SawStop comes up: why does it appears as if this isn't much of a thing outside of the US? Or is it and I'm just not seeing it from my Dutch viewpoint? Does anyone know of anyone who has written about this discrepancy with some numbers (emergency room admissions, SawStop sales) backing it?

Sawstop wasn't available for purchase in the EU until last month. The only version that was available was the very expensive Festool table saw, though they are both from the same company. I'm currently waiting on my compact Sawstop to be shipped from the first batch.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#96

Post by miunau » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:51 AM UTC

jwr wrote: post #89

Freak_NL wrote: post #83

The question that bothers me whenever SawStop comes up: why does it appears as if this isn't much of a thing outside of the US? Or is it and I'm just not seeing it from my Dutch viewpoint? Does anyone know of anyone who has written about this discrepancy with some numbers (emergency room admissions, SawStop sales) backing it?

One reason could also be that the US woodworking culture treats a table saw as an essential tool (especially the basic table saw, without a sliding table), while elsewhere track saws are used more, it seems. If you run commercial production, then you do need a table saw (but one with a sliding table!), but for hobby work you might as well spend some time for track saw setups and be much safer.

Table saws are very common in Europe in hobby circles as well. If you take woodworking in school you'll learn to use it along with other tools. Also, you usually build the sliding table and other jigs yourself using the tracks on every table saw. They're called T-tracks, there's a couple different common widths.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#97

Post by beacon294 » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 10:54 AM UTC

shrubble wrote: post #20

chewbacha wrote: post #10

Wait, so is it a one time function? Can the wire be reset?

There is a removable cartridge that stops the blade. It ruins the blade. The cartridge gets swapped out with a new one in a few minutes (the table top of the saw can be partially opened) and costs about $150 .

> When the brake is activated, the most recent data is stored into memory and SawStop can download the data from the activated cartridge. This data is very important to our continuing research and development program. If SawStop’s engineers verify the activation was due to contact with skin, you will receive a free replacement cartridge. If you are unsure why the cartridge activated, you can also ship the cartridge for analysis to SawStop’s service engineers. When the cartridge data is downloaded, we then can determine what specifically caused the brake to activate so that further unintended activations can be prevented. The brake cartridge evaluation is free of charge the shipping of the brake cartridge is paid for by the customer.

https://www.sawstop.com/service-tips/what-to-do-if-the-sawst...

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#98

Post by miunau » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 11:11 AM UTC

jasode wrote: post #87

>, I have an altendorf handguard sliding table saw, which will stop as fast as the sawstop, The alternative approaches from other industrial saw manufacturers that are "non-contact non-destructive" are interesting: - cameras and machine learning used by Altendorf "Hand Guard": https://www.altendorfgroup.com/en-us/machines/altendorf-hand... - inductive proximity (same science as Theremin[1]) used by Felder "PCS Preven…

I'm not sure how comparable these alternatives are when two of them are "request a quote" kind of pricing, and the Altendorf is $7000+, unless you're considering an entire cabinet. None of them will go on a job site with you, for example. I would love to test the Felder system though.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#99

Post by beAbU » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 11:11 AM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #69

Thanks to the author for not burying the lede. This is how an informative article should look like and it was a joy to read.

It's Ironic that this is basically an ad. Lumafield is an industrial CT scan provider, and these articles serve as an advertisement of their capabilities.

I think this is marketing done right. I am not in the CT scan industry, nor do I think I'll ever have the need for these services, yet I came out slightly more knowledgeable about the world around me after reading their article. Maybe one day I will have the need for commercial CT services, and Lumafield will be the first one to come to mind.

Re: CT Scans of New vs. Used SawStop

#100

Post by WillAdams » Mon, Dec 09, 2024, 11:32 AM UTC

dyauspitr wrote: post #31

bsder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The saw manufacturers all blew off SawStop because they were worried that they would now be liable for any injuries which still occurred. Simply make table saw manufacturers liable for any injury from the saw and this kind of mechanism will instantly become default.

That’s terrible though. You can’t make knife manufacturers responsible for everything a knife does.

Have you checked recent legal cases against gun manufacturers? Some are not too far removed from suing a battery manufacturer because someone took the acid from a battery and used it in an attack?

Traveled to New York City or the U.K. recently? Check your pocket for a locking blade, or an assisted opening knife before-hand.