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Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

blog.frankel.ch

11–20 of 104 posts

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#11
post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

I agree, this is the way. If you do this, remember to install the devices on their final location and only then attempt to pair, so the device pairs to the closest appropriate router.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#12
post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with.

I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi, and the hub allows integration with home automation or remote control. I've played around with Philips Hue and other smart bulbs, but it feels too much like a toy rather than something I'd replace all of my lights with, and ultimately I ended up with an all Caseta light setup for my home.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another alternative for those who like to tinker is to get Tuya-powered devices which can be reprogrammed to use Tasmota, ESPhome, OpenBeken or something similar. Reprogramming the things can be as simple as running some tool - this used to be the case but it is getting rare since the vulnerabilities used to take over the devices are getting fixed - or as involved as opening up the devices to connect a TTL/USB serial…

This is OK, but Zigbee is better. It runs offline, the devices can't access the internet so no data issues, and it's a standard protocol that's trivial to interface with over the MQTT bridge.

My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other, so if you want a particular switch to control a particular light you still need some sort of controller to be operating even if it's on your own local network. This is better than requiring Internet access, but a notable reliability downgrade from normal light switches unless your controller is 100% bulletproof.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#14
post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM…

Why are Lutron Caseta or RadioRA any different than a locally-hosted Home Assistant installation with an attached Z-Wave or Zigbee radio?

Why is "work[s] totally independently of Home Assistant" a desirable property?

https://www.zwaveoutlet.com/pages/z-wave-associations

https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AP...

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#15
post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM…

With zigbee you can “bind” devices together, so that their interactions work without needing the hub to intervene. I bound my IKEA buttons to my IKEA lights with my homeassistant controller (with some difficulty) so that even when the controller is offline the buttons will still work.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is OK, but Zigbee is better. It runs offline, the devices can't access the internet so no data issues, and it's a standard protocol that's trivial to interface with over the MQTT bridge.

My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other, so if you want a particular switch to control a particular light you still need some sort of controller to be operating even if it's on your own local network. This is better than requiring Internet access, but a notable reliability downgrade from normal light switches unless your controller is 100% bulletproof.

You can pair zigbee switch to a light without a hub, it just works

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#17
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is OK, but Zigbee is better. It runs offline, the devices can't access the internet so no data issues, and it's a standard protocol that's trivial to interface with over the MQTT bridge.

My (maybe incorrect) understanding is that Zigbee devices can't independently pair with each other, so if you want a particular switch to control a particular light you still need some sort of controller to be operating even if it's on your own local network. This is better than requiring Internet access, but a notable reliability downgrade from normal light switches unless your controller is 100% bulletproof.

Sure, but we're comparing other smart home setups to Zigbee, not Zigbee to old-style wall switches.

However, you can also pair Zigbee switches to other Zigbee devices directly (although I've never tried it).

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM…

Why are Lutron Caseta or RadioRA any different than a locally-hosted Home Assistant installation with an attached Z-Wave or Zigbee radio? Why is "work[s] totally independently of Home Assistant" a desirable property? https://www.zwaveoutlet.com/pages/z-wave-associations https://www.silabs.com/documents/public/application-notes/AP...

Q: > Why is "work[s] totally independently of Home Assistant" a desirable property?

A: > the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM could make it so I can't turn my lights on and off feels like a bit too much. Caseta doesn't use an open protocol, but it does allow all your switches, remotes, lights, etc, to work totally independently of HomeAssistant or Internet/WiFi

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#19
post #2

If you're going down the HomeAssistant route I'd recommend ditching any proprietary hubs and getting a Zigbee dongle instead, I've been using the Sonoff Zigbee dongle and even though it's connected to the server, in a rack, in the garage (so thick breezeblock walls between it and the rest of the house) there are enough always on mesh nodes in the lights themselves that the network is steady. Granted, the Dongle itsel…

Zigbee is good, but for lights or anything else you really want to always work, I'd recommend going with something that also works independently of HomeAssistant and Internet access even if you then need a proprietary hub to integrate with HomeAssistant. Lutron's Caseta system is what I went with. I've found HomeAssistant with Zigbee to be extremely reliable, but the idea that a botched software upgrade or failed VM…

Also be aware that there are a couple different kinds of "works without internet access".

One kind works without ever needing internet access (on the IOT device itself or on the app if it uses an app) except possibly when you want to install a firmware update and perhaps when first setting up the device.

The other kind requires you to log in to an account from the IOT vendor, but doesn't actually need internet access to then use the device. The thing to watch out for with these is that sometimes the login has a time limit so you occasionally have to re-login. Or sometimes you have to re-login if the vendor's app updates.

An example of the latter is some TP-Link smart plugs I have. I only use them from Apple Shortcuts, but it is still TP-Link's app controlling them underneath and occasionally the shortcut stops working until I open the TP-Link. When I do that I invariably find that I'm no longer logged in, and logging back in makes them work again.

For lights in particular another thing to consider when choosing them is what they do on power up. Some let you set the behavior and remember that on the IOT device, typically offering some subset of these options: light off; light full on; light however it was when power was last lost; light on to a specific brightness and color.

Some have one of those behaviors and you can't change it. Typically "light full on", because that means you can use it both as an ordinary bulb that you turn on and off from a regular light switch and as a fancy IOT light.

For lights that you only occasionally need to dim or change color on that can be great. But for lights that you often want to turn on and off remotely so you need to leave the switch on all the time it gets really annoying because every time you get a power outage or often even a significant power flicker they turn off and come back full on.

Re: Replace Philips Hue Automation with Home Assistant's

#20
Has anyone done this that can compare it to the Hue app? I've had a few apps/light combinations, and the Hue app is by far the best I've used. It's compelling enough to suffer the beginnings of enshitification, but looking for a parachute when it gets to be too much.

I like Hue's rooms where all bulbs in the room are updated at the same time (seems like a basic thing), while others apps don't quite do this right. Applying a color change to the room vs each bulb in the room. I have one room with 3 separate light strips where the app "spans" a light patterns across each device. Again, not something other apps do without setting each individual bulb.

The Hue app works really well for me, and being unable to find an equally featured replacement keeps me on it

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