Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

shreyans.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 260 posts

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#81

Post by germinalphrase »

bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #14
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not. To speak plainly, I wasn't terribly interested in my son until he turned 3 years old. Then he started talking, started developing a personality with interests of his own, and fatherhood then became much more interesting. But I was intentionally quite uninvolved in those very early years. I don't regret this, don't see how else it could have been, and indeed I feel that some degree of fatherly aloo…

That's really interesting to read. I'm a man who has absolutely zero interest in interacting with babies and infants, but kids who can talk and ask questions can be pretty funny and cute even. My wife doesn't understand this at all.

I was the same way before having my own children. Then a switch flipped.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#83

Post by llm_nerd »

wooque wrote: post #74
llm_nerd wrote: post #47

I have four children. I have never regretted it or wished for a different path. I know it isn't for everyone, but it absolutely was and is for me. At the same time I do think articles like this should be countered with the reality that many fathers aren't overwhelmed with waves of love or "surreal magnificence". With each of my children being born the primary emotions I could point to were dread and anxiety. The sudd…

Birth rates plummeted even in Saudi Arabia and Iran, which are polar opposite of the West, so I'd say loss of "village" is tiny part of the problem.

It's possible for different influences to play a part in different countries and cultures. Further, there is a remarkable scale difference.

The high survivability of children now means that having large numbers of children dropped everywhere. You don't need to have "extras". The problem is when the number drops too much. It did in Iran due to literal government influence, and is quickly turning back to replacement level. Saudi Arabia is above replacement level.

That is very different than Canada (1.33) or South Korea (0.88), or Switzerland (1.39). The scale is dramatically different.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#84

Post by throw10920 »

lwhalen wrote: post #60
mistermann wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> Wait, what am I going to be saved from, you say? Oh, what sky-daddy will do to me if I DON'T love, honor, obey, and tithe him, etc.

You need to take a look at the HN guidelines because you have very clearly not read them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#85

Post by IgorPartola »

627467 wrote: post #66
llm_nerd wrote: post #47

I have four children. I have never regretted it or wished for a different path. I know it isn't for everyone, but it absolutely was and is for me. At the same time I do think articles like this should be countered with the reality that many fathers aren't overwhelmed with waves of love or "surreal magnificence". With each of my children being born the primary emotions I could point to were dread and anxiety. The sudd…

And you don't think the destruction of the village and sharp decline in birth rate feed of each other? Individuals have outsourced so much to abstract "institutions" that they can't see alternatives whatever precarious and worsening services these institutions provide.

No. The reason why is because we have opportunities to move up and down the social ladder.

Basically it’s not really like the whole village raised your kid before, that’s more of a romanticized version. What happened was that your extended family helped because you lived with them for your entire life. So you have a kid, your sister in law watches them along with your mother while you work. Where do you work? Well that’s wherever your family works. If you are born into a farm, you are a farmer. If your family is blacksmiths, you’ll be a smith. Or a dung sifter, etc. If you can’t do it, maybe your farmer family sends you to apprentice with the local smith. But you rarely get a choice in what you do, where you live, etc.

Moreover, if you don’t like your family/they don’t like you: tough. You might hate your sister in law but who else will watch your kid while you sift dung?

What has changed is that we have the free market. Your can move out, have your own career and hire someone to care for your kids while you work. You no longer have access to “free” childcare but you have access to the job market instead. Want to leave the farm and move to the big city to become a jewelry maker? Go for it. But you won’t have much support to start a family. You are paying for free choice.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#86

Post by vivi_ »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #72
hooverd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who used to work with a children's hospital (on the EMR site but still) I wish we could find and kill the asshole who decided a myriad of childhood cancers was in their grand plan.

You can save over ten million children from murder if you raise support to ban abortion. Cancer is horrible, too. People following Christ built many hospitals, orphanages, recovery programs, and places like Life Choices Memphis to do what we can for them. You show two, common views: God owes us something; no gratitude. God is a sovereign being who can do what He wants with His creation like you do with your possessio…

Why are you doing this?

Friendly reminder that this is HackerNews; nobody is here (nor cares) to read your incoherent, unwelcome religious preach nor to argue religion - at all. That is not the topic of the article, there is nothing to do with religion in the article yet you feel it is your duty to solicit your irrelevant and frankly offensive religious beliefs onto others.

I don't spew atheist thought unto christianforums.com - though if I did I'm certain there would be be pitchforks, unchallenged hypocrisy is one of religions most potent weapons.

Also, I'm assuming you do not possess the physical configuration to give birth to a child so lay hands off her body, it's not your f*cking life. If you are indeed capable of birthing a child, forgive me - I hear y'all good at that.

One last question: is your zealotry the reason behind your lobste.rs ban last year by pushcx?

> Even supposedly friendly bigotry is unwelcome.

Maybe don't pray on us, cool?

Thanks!

edit: spelling

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#87

Post by rybosome »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #12
mr_mitm wrote: post #9

Is it like this for everyone? I sometimes wonder how large the number of cases is where the parent does not feel like that at all but refrains from sharing it due to societal expectations and fear of being judged. It would introduce a bias regarding these stories.

It's certainly not. To speak plainly, I wasn't terribly interested in my son until he turned 3 years old. Then he started talking, started developing a personality with interests of his own, and fatherhood then became much more interesting. But I was intentionally quite uninvolved in those very early years. I don't regret this, don't see how else it could have been, and indeed I feel that some degree of fatherly aloo…

I’m not going to shame you for your parental experience, but it does not mirror mine as a father.

When my daughter was born I was crying with joy. And while her infancy was enormously challenging, especially as she was born right when COVID lockdowns began (which prevented ANY assistance), I was immediately and profoundly in love with her.

It was very important to me to be extremely engaged when she was an infant. I wanted to - and did - earn her trust as a caretaker and source of comfort. And now, as a 4 year old, the relationship I have with her is utterly priceless.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#88

Post by wat10000 »

627467 wrote: post #79
wat10000 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the survival of the species depends on pressuring people to live their lives in a way that many of them don’t want, then maybe we should just die out.

> then maybe we should just die out Have you consider all aspects of social conditioning/pressure existed and exist to lead you to utter those words?

Yes, every action I take is the sum of all events in my past light cone, very profound.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#89

Post by llm_nerd »

IgorPartola wrote: post #85
627467 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you don't think the destruction of the village and sharp decline in birth rate feed of each other? Individuals have outsourced so much to abstract "institutions" that they can't see alternatives whatever precarious and worsening services these institutions provide.

No. The reason why is because we have opportunities to move up and down the social ladder. Basically it’s not really like the whole village raised your kid before, that’s more of a romanticized version. What happened was that your extended family helped because you lived with them for your entire life. So you have a kid, your sister in law watches them along with your mother while you work. Where do you work? Well th…

"The village" isn't limited to some pioneer dung sifter living seven generations to a hovel. Also absolutely bizarre how so many people so desperately want to make this an economic thing.

The village referred to the notion that children were viewed as important to the whole. The whole country, the whole province, the whole village, the whole neighbourhood, the whole family. Everyone cared about and contributed to the raising of children. In my childhood -- and at this point the village was already declining -- I had a number of friend families that were like second, third and fourth families where I could stayover for dinner whenever I wanted, they watched out for me, etc. There were many times where I spent nights at aunts with my cousins, or at grandparents.

Culturally this is far less common. We all move hundreds of kilometers apart. Sometimes for careers, more often because you're a loser if you stay near where you grew up. Many/most younger people have little relation with cousins or aunts or uncles. Grandparents now move to Arizona and ask for pictures occasionally. People have an antagonistic attitude towards other people's kids as a selfish trifle that are just a nuisance for everyone else.

No, hiring a nanny isn't equivalent and doesn't invalidate this.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#90

Post by jebarker »

apwell23 wrote: post #56
llm_nerd wrote: post #47

I have four children. I have never regretted it or wished for a different path. I know it isn't for everyone, but it absolutely was and is for me. At the same time I do think articles like this should be countered with the reality that many fathers aren't overwhelmed with waves of love or "surreal magnificence". With each of my children being born the primary emotions I could point to were dread and anxiety. The sudd…

> One of the reasons birthrates have plummeted in the West, and sentiments about having children have dropped, is that we have no "village", so to speak. It probably true but even the well of who can afford to buy the village aren't having kids. I think it has more to do with 1. cultural acceptance and lack of strict cultural pressure to have kids. Its unimaginable in India to not have kids by choice. Its not a choic…

I also think we've become more self-obsessed and the idea that we might need to sacrifice time spent on ourselves scares us.
Post reply on HN