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Pay Too Much for everything

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Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#131

Post by thwest »

roc wrote: post #88
freehunter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote to add to your great analysis, I know a lot of my engineering coworkers (including me) who refuse to buy new cars. I drive a 15 year old truck not because it's fuel-efficient, not because it's beautiful, not because it has all the features, and certainly not because it needs no maintenance. It's because when it does need maintenance, I can do it and it's relatively cheap and easy. It's the Timex vs poc…

Cars are a good example of why "built to last" doesn't make universal sense. We don't make trucks like we did 15 years ago, because we know what happens to the human body inside a rigid metal shell during a collision. We know that we can design engines and transmissions that will keep you on the road better, keep you out of more accidents and at least halve your fuel bill. And these gains will trivially outweigh the…

Where do you get your information regarding the environmental costs of manufacturing and disposal of vehicles and large appliances so that you can make this judgement?

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#132

Post by arjunnarayan »

What about the selection bias? You don't see the watches your grandfather bought that didn't make it down to you because they broke. Of course the few carefully selected things that have survived and been handed down are the exceptional pieces!

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#133

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

roc wrote: post #88
freehunter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote to add to your great analysis, I know a lot of my engineering coworkers (including me) who refuse to buy new cars. I drive a 15 year old truck not because it's fuel-efficient, not because it's beautiful, not because it has all the features, and certainly not because it needs no maintenance. It's because when it does need maintenance, I can do it and it's relatively cheap and easy. It's the Timex vs poc…

Cars are a good example of why "built to last" doesn't make universal sense. We don't make trucks like we did 15 years ago, because we know what happens to the human body inside a rigid metal shell during a collision. We know that we can design engines and transmissions that will keep you on the road better, keep you out of more accidents and at least halve your fuel bill. And these gains will trivially outweigh the…

you can save so much more money in the interim that you'll still be ahead after you replace it

Are you seriously saying that the price of e.g., a new $1000 refrigerator + the cost of running it for 10 years is going to be less than the cost of running an existing 10 year-old model?

Now, I have to admit that I haven't done the math (beyond a back of the envelope estimate), but I'm having a hard time believing that it's even close, unless you live in an area with astronomical electricity rates.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#134

Post by hkmurakami »

sireat wrote: post #126
genwin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'll ever buy a car or house you should know their quality; you can rely on the judgment of others for that. For cars it's usually easy: Japanese or Hyundai. Car magazines rate their quality. For houses, it's generally ones from 1960 to 1980. An inspector can judge the quality of a house.

Interestingly enough Hyundai were quite horrible up to the late 1990s. "Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove an eighty thousand dollar BMW" was quite an insult, when Glengarry Glen Ross came out.

And similarly, there was a time when "Made in Japan" was a sure sign of poor quality. (post-war era)

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#135

Post by dllthomas »

beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

> However, their function is superior for all practical purposes.

These days, when everyone has a pocket-watch in their pocket, "jewelry" is more of the function of a wristwatch than perhaps ever before. A $10 timex is inferior for this practical purpose, however much better it is at actual timekeeping.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#136

Post by thebigshane »

gmac wrote: post #69
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn. Just because you don't know now, doesn't excuse you from not knowing when you go to make a purchase. There are a number of ways to acquire knowledge out there. Go get it.

To a point. But there aren't enough hours in the day to become an expert in buying everything one has to buy, and in many cases predicting the durability of something is really difficult. I guess this is in large part why brands are so valuable, as they give consumers a seemingly easy quality heuristic.

The term you may be looking for is: Rational Ignorance

  Rational ignorance occurs when the cost of educating 
  oneself on an issue exceeds the potential benefit that 
  the knowledge would provide.

  Ignorance about an issue is said to be "rational" when 
  the cost of educating oneself about the issue 
  sufficiently to make an informed decision can outweigh 
  any potential benefit one could reasonably expect to gain 
  from that decision, and so it would be irrational to 
  waste time doing so. This has consequences for the 
  quality of decisions made by large numbers of people, 
  such as general elections, where the probability of any 
  one vote changing the outcome is very small.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_ignorance]

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#137

Post by marekmroz »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #65
megablast wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying too much for something works if you have no idea how to actually judge the quality of the item. I know computers and bikes, and will not pay too much for those thing, because I know the quality and I know the cost. I have no idea about cars, or houses, or shoes, so I have not way of judging the quality of these items.

Learn. Just because you don't know now, doesn't excuse you from not knowing when you go to make a purchase. There are a number of ways to acquire knowledge out there. Go get it.

Just don't go overboard with looking for the absolute best.

Your post reminded me of "The Paradox of Choice" [1], a book by Barry Schwartz that I read not long ago. One of the claims that the author makes is that satisficing is the best maximizing strategy. After factoring in stress, wasted time and dissatisfaction that result from looking for "the best" product or price it turns out that paying a bit more for a product that is good enough is cheaper.

[1]The Paradox of Choice: http://www.amazon.ca/Paradox-Choice-Why-More-Less/dp/0060005...

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#138

Post by pbreit »

beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

You're probably both right but the OP is more interesting because people generally subscribe to your point of view. Which is the whole reason the OP's post needed to be written.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#139

Post by pbreit »

freehunter wrote: post #63
beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

As an anecdote to add to your great analysis, I know a lot of my engineering coworkers (including me) who refuse to buy new cars. I drive a 15 year old truck not because it's fuel-efficient, not because it's beautiful, not because it has all the features, and certainly not because it needs no maintenance. It's because when it does need maintenance, I can do it and it's relatively cheap and easy. It's the Timex vs poc…

My experience with cars is the opposite which is why I only lease now. You get a brand new, terrific car every three years.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#140

Post by pbreit »

megablast wrote: post #32
beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

Paying too much for something works if you have no idea how to actually judge the quality of the item. I know computers and bikes, and will not pay too much for those thing, because I know the quality and I know the cost. I have no idea about cars, or houses, or shoes, so I have not way of judging the quality of these items.

I think you're taking "pay too much" too literally. He's just saying don't always try to by the cheapest garbage or chintz out on tipping.
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