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Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

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Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#431

Post by vagab0nd »

digging wrote: post #149
erulabs wrote: post #128

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

I think that's a bit of a trap. It's not impossible, but by default we should expect it to make games less fun . The better you make this infinite narrative generator, the more complicated the world gets and the less compelling it gets to actually interact with any one story. Stories thrive by setting their own context. They should feel important to the viewer. An open world with infinite stories can't make every sto…

It's a search problem.

By definition, an infinite game is as boring as real life. To make it interesting, the engine must be able to search for a good story based on player actions. You can see this today already. Many games will guide the player into one or a few predefined stories. A better game would not have them predefined, but generated on-the-fly based on player actions.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#432

Post by brookst »

digging wrote: post #426
brookst wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked ChatGPT “ Write a one paragraph pitch for a novel that combines genres and concepts in a way that’s never been done before.” I’m not going to claim this is Pulitzer-worthy, but it seems fairly novel: > In Spiritfall: A Symphony of Rust and Rose Petals, readers traverse the borders of time, taste, and consciousness in a genre-bending epic that effortlessly fuses neo-noir detective intrigue, culinary magic real…

...that pitch is a mess. The majority of it is nonsense and it doesn't sound like a good story to me (I think. I can hardly parse it.)

Like I said, it’s not good, but I was using it to falsify the claim that LLMs can only produce concepts that are in the training set or prompt.

If I were using this for real I’d ask it to iterate, to create a story arc, etc.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#434

Post by sdenton4 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #429
sdenton4 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Waymo.

"Well Waymo" is not DeepMind. Look. The other poster also said "Waymo" but I'm talking about DeepMind. It's DeepMind that promises to conquer the world with Deep Reinforcement Learning, and it's DeepMind that keeps showing us how great their DRL agents work in virtual worlds, like minecraft or starcraft, or how well they work on Chess and Go, but still haven't been able to demonstrate the application of those powerfu…

Oh, I see that /this/ Scotsman isn't true, either!

Waymo absolutely uses simulated multi-agent environments to improve their cars reliability; here's an example research artifact: https://waymo.com/research/waymax/

I think you're deluding yourself about the progress in this area. There's an enormous amount of specialized work in bringing results from research to market. WayMo does that work, but it simply isn't worth doing for things like robot football or simple object manipulation. So you're simply not going to see a 1:1 alignment of 'pure' research teams and applications teams. That doesn't mean that the research work hasn't led to improvements in applications, though.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#435

Post by moralestapia »

moralestapia wrote: post #430
moralestapia wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Email on profile! I'll match any 5-figure amount you propose. I also know an escrow service we can trust.

Day two of the two year bet: https://x.com/mrjonfinger/status/1865161230706520472 Let's do this, Shasseem.

Day four of the two year bet:

https://x.com/MKBHD/status/1866152437838393797

Please, please, please take that bet my "South Asian" friend.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#436

Post by digging »

brookst wrote: post #432
digging wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...that pitch is a mess. The majority of it is nonsense and it doesn't sound like a good story to me (I think. I can hardly parse it.)

Like I said, it’s not good , but I was using it to falsify the claim that LLMs can only produce concepts that are in the training set or prompt. If I were using this for real I’d ask it to iterate, to create a story arc, etc.

Well, all of the conceptual elements it used are in the training set; it just combined them in ways that don't even make syntactic sense. Yes, I know we "just" combine ideas too when we're creating. My point is that I don't think it was producing new concepts, just slamming words together in grammatically acceptable ways. Do any of its absurd phrases mean anything to you? They don't mean anything to me. I could create something conceptually sound based on its absurd phrases, but that's still me doing the work where the LLM is acting as an algorithmic name generator.

I'd be curious if it could explain those concepts and use them in consistent ways. If so, I'd be curious how novel it could really get. Is it just going to be repackaging well-trod scifi and fantasy devices, or studied philosophy? Or could it offer us a story with truly new understandings? For example, to my knowledge, House of Leaves is something truly novel. It's probably not the first book with intentional printing errors, or with layered narration, or with place-horror, etc. But I think House of Leaves is pretty widely considered a sort of "step forward" for literature, having a profound impact on the reader unlike anything that came before it.

(A really serious discussion will require analyzing exactly what that impact is and how it's novel.)

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