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OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

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Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#51

Post by danielbln »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #10
F7F7F7 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had AI influencers reaching out to inquire about the bridge I have for sale, everyday for the past 2 years. We’ll never see AGI in its original definition in our lifetimes. It doesn’t take being a rocket…company buying billionaire.

I wouldn't be comfortable saying we'll never see AGI in our lifetimes. I've seen incredible progress since I was a kiddo and computers were these huge machines that took up an entire desk, not to mention that only a decade prior to that, they were machines that took up entire warehouses. And now, I carry around a computer who's primary function is organizing my life and helping me kill time, and it has hundreds of ti…

While I agree with your general sentiment, let's not sell LLMs short. These things would be firmly scifi not even 5 years ago and they are significantly more powerful than "mostly good at grammar". They do still make shit up, I give you that.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#52

Post by iterance »

skepticATX wrote: post #37
rgbrenner wrote: post #16

GPT is insufficient for AGI. It might be part of the solution one day, but it's fundamentally incapable of bridging the gap by itself. Despite what Altman/OpenAI says in public, I think he knows this too... That's why they dissolved the Superalignment safety team; and dropping the AGI clause just confirms that. As time goes on, the "AGI is coming" hype machine gets harder to sustain... and their work/company will beg…

What frustrates me the most about OpenAI is that as recently as this summer they were talking non-stop about how gigantic $100 billion models are all you need for AGI and that it’s just a matter of time until we reach this scale. And if you didn’t see this you’re a simpleton who doesn’t understand how exponential curves work. And then all of the sudden o1 comes out and the narrative from them has shifted entirely. “O…

> that won’t happen because it doesn’t generate revenue.

OpenAI made real progress towards a computational understanding of human language and cognition. I'm sorry they have become a for-profit entity (the paperwork lags behind reality, of course). A fiduciary duty does not serve humanity. The quality and credibility of their communications have fallen dramatically.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#53

Post by norir »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #39
blueprint wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe he didn't even want those things, but just said them, to secure fame, power, and access to things like secrets. He played us like a fiddle. Remember Mars as a backup plan? The reason why we thought SpaceX was a humanitarian and scientific effort that we could rally behind? Yeah that was bullshit. We just played to your wish to be able to trust someone and to be led to safety so we could gather talent and fun…

> Or maybe he didn't even want those things, but just said them, to secure fame, power, and access to things like secrets. As much as I enjoy ripping him apart, that last bit ascribes to him a level of forethought and planning that I sincerely think is above him. I think the first one has it. The power is probably nice, especially if it gets him closer to being cool? But honestly when you dig into his history, he is…

In this way he is remarkably similar to his new partner in crime.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#54

Post by r3trohack3r »

talldayo wrote: post #36
bloomingkales wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This glorified Markov chain educates me better than many things. Why are people so intent on calling bullshit on AI? It might be a disease honestly.

Because "educating you better than most things" and "unavoidably generating bullshit" are not mutually exclusive. It's entirely possible that AI is better than human conversation on the spectrum of "adhering perfectly to truth" but it's far-and-away less credible than an encyclopedia or even a peer-reviewed paper. Publishers know they cannot publish false information without spoiling their reputation. ChatGPT lies li…

I remember many instances in childhood where I began to realize authority figures, parents/teachers/etc., that I had been trusting to teach me the ways of life weren’t all knowing. Moments of “lies” (using your term, really just being incorrect) where the cracks began to show.

I treat ChatGPT like a 90th percentile educator across many problem domains. Is it going to be wrong? Yes. Is to going to be very wrong? Yes. Is it capable of generating tangents of pure and unadulterated bullshit? Yes. But that was true of every teacher, professor, and mentor I’ve ever had.

Just because my 8th grade algebra teacher wasn’t as accurate as an encyclopedia or a published textbook didn’t prevent them from filling the role I rely on ChatGPT to fill now.

Edit: also, peer review isn’t a great example of a system that eliminates bs.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#55

Post by tim333 »

skepticATX wrote: post #37
rgbrenner wrote: post #16

GPT is insufficient for AGI. It might be part of the solution one day, but it's fundamentally incapable of bridging the gap by itself. Despite what Altman/OpenAI says in public, I think he knows this too... That's why they dissolved the Superalignment safety team; and dropping the AGI clause just confirms that. As time goes on, the "AGI is coming" hype machine gets harder to sustain... and their work/company will beg…

What frustrates me the most about OpenAI is that as recently as this summer they were talking non-stop about how gigantic $100 billion models are all you need for AGI and that it’s just a matter of time until we reach this scale. And if you didn’t see this you’re a simpleton who doesn’t understand how exponential curves work. And then all of the sudden o1 comes out and the narrative from them has shifted entirely. “O…

I don't remember them saying "$100 billion models are all you need for AGI." Don't suppose you have a link?

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#56

Post by danielbln »

guluarte wrote: post #18
rgbrenner wrote: post #16

GPT is insufficient for AGI. It might be part of the solution one day, but it's fundamentally incapable of bridging the gap by itself. Despite what Altman/OpenAI says in public, I think he knows this too... That's why they dissolved the Superalignment safety team; and dropping the AGI clause just confirms that. As time goes on, the "AGI is coming" hype machine gets harder to sustain... and their work/company will beg…

yep, it is just a glorified markov chain

For every hype there is the anti-hype, as can be seen in the parent comment. I suppose it's just the way things go, until we've arrived at a more measured place.No, LLMs aren't AGI, not by a long shot. And yes, they are significantly more powerful than Markov chains.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#57

Post by CamperBob2 »

kussenverboten wrote: post #47
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elon hired the right people and let them get on with it, at the very least. For whatever reason, Jeff Bezos was not capable of that. Yes. He wrote checks. That's it. That is not a skill. (I'm posting too fast) > No. Elon is a guy who will himself sleep on the factory floor to get something done. He is the guy who famously said "when you're going through hell, keep going". He is the guy who bet his entire fortune on…

No. Elon is a guy who will himself sleep on the factory floor to get something done. He is the guy who famously said "when you're going through hell, keep going". He is the guy who bet his entire fortune on electric cars and rockets when no one thought that was a bright idea.

To be fair, he's also the guy who called a guy a pedophile on Twitter when he disagreed with him, then threatened to buy the company for $54.20 a share because LOL 420, then fought like a wildcat to get out of it, and then, when he couldn't get out of it, told his newly-acquired customers to fuck off.

He is basically a chaos monkey.

A man for his time.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#58

Post by aleph_minus_one »

CityOfThrowaway wrote: post #23

OpenAI really does seem to embody the idea that all contracts are renegotiable if you're Machiavellian enough.

> OpenAI really does seem to embody the idea that all contracts are renegotiable

Why aren't they renegotiable? Of course you can attempt to renegotiate basically every contract; the question is whether this will be successful or whether this is a good idea. There is no need to appeal to Machiavellianism.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#59

Post by heresie-dabord »

tim333 wrote: post #3

> “We’ve also said that our intention is to treat AGI as a mile marker along the way. We’ve left ourselves some flexibility because we don’t know what will happen,” added Altman Musk accusing Altman of “deceit of Shakespearean proportions.”

> “deceit of Shakespearean proportions.”

It is true that some of Shakespeare's characters exhibit grotesque exaggerations of human frailties. They go mad with ambition, cruelty, and delusion, imposing their whims on victims around them. They typically show no sign of compunction until they have brought themselves to a miserable, self-inflicted end in tragedy.

It is ironic to read such recriminations from this particular character.

Re: OpenAI seeks to unlock investment by ditching 'AGI' clause with Microsoft

#60

Post by xelxebar »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #6

> As per the current terms, when OpenAI creates AGI - defined as a "highly autonomous system that outperforms humans at most economically valuable work" - Microsoft's access to such a technology would be void. That’s their definition of AGI? What does that have to do with actual intelligence?

How would you, personally, operationalize intelligence? Outperforming humans across a broad range of tasks does sound like general competence. That said, we do want to make sure the tasks are 1) not stupid, and 2) not cherry picked.

Requiring outputs to generate profit is a well-established proxy for human value, even if it's imperfect, and letting the economy pick tasks makes it hard for OpenAI to cherry pick.

I don't know about you, but a reliable ability to generate high value sounds like the kind of intelligence I care about.

On the meta-level, I think disagreements like this about "actual intelligence" and "really conscious" do a good job of showing how out of distribution we are on our human wetware classifiers. The terms really are fuzzy and ill-suited for generating understanding of current AI model behavior, IMHO.

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