Pay Too Much for everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#101

Post by nosse » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:27 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #55

The problem is that the modern consumer cannot associate cost with quality. I usually buy the cheapest appliance I can find (microwave, coffee machine, lawn mower) because it has the fewest bells and whistles and is likely the only one I can fix myself.

If I don't have the time to really look into things, I go with the cheapest too.

- You usually have exactly the quality you paid for, so no surprises here.

- It's often more ecological. If factory A can produce more stuff with same money than factory B, they must be doing something right. Another way to look at this would be: if you have to make shovels dirt cheap, you can't use barrels of oil/shovel, because you would have to pay for that oil.

I really cannot prove this cheap is ecological, but I've noticed that this holds true in plastic Christmas-trees, cucumbers and majority of unprocessed meat products. Chicken production should cause only 1/5 of the problems that beef production. Surprise, surprise chicken also cost's 1/5.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#102

Post by denzil_correa » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:28 PM UTC

hythloday wrote: post #50

denzil_correa wrote: post #41

> This is so weird to me. No one haggles over $5 on the price of a car, but it seems that everyone needs a tip calculator to determine if they should pay 21.50 or $22.00 for a meal. A $5 on a 2000 is 0.25% and a $0.50 on $20 meal is 2.5%

Is this relevant? If I get £50 off a house purchase and then tip the next waiter I meet £50 on a £50 meal, I'm no better off but the waiter will be ecstatic and the house-seller probably not more morose. The percentages are not terribly relevant to happiness , which is not well-correlated with money saved--see Dickens for more details. :)

My point was you save more for on $0.50 on a meal than a $5 on a car. In terms of pure monetary value, it is relevant. This comment was more in the light of an "alternate" theory as the author doesn't appreciate the fact that people haggle over $0.50 on a tip.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#103

Post by wahnfrieden » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:29 PM UTC

b0rsuk wrote: post #60

We have a saying: "Poor people can't afford inexpensive stuff."

Poor people end up getting worse deals on things though since they often have fewer resources available to them. If they wanted to pay more for something that will last, they may not have that option if they don't live in or around an affluent neighborhood. It's more expensive to be poor.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#104

Post by PedroCandeias » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:31 PM UTC

pitt1980 wrote: post #86

PedroCandeias wrote: post #26

I don't think the Op is getting as much love as he deserves. Many of the intangible pieces that make up the quality of a product or service go out the door when we’re getting a deal. They’re doing a favor and sometimes when we bargain, people resent us. This is absolute gold when it comes to longer business relationships. I have come through to believe that entirely too many fail simply because someone is resentful o…

it cuts both ways, you don't want to get 'sucker' stapped on your forehead early in a business relationship obviously, good relationships have give a take both ways, a little framing of what you expect early on, can pay alot of dividends over the long run

True. I guess the ideal is to be seen as someone who is generous but has high expectations and will not hesitate to terminate the relationship and move business elsewhere.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#105

Post by nosse » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:31 PM UTC

karolist wrote: post #98

jakeonthemove wrote: post #62

Instead of overpaying, I think it's better to get the best product you can for the money you have. It does require you to learn how to recognize quality and know the prices, but it pays off in the end. For example, I wouldn't buy a Ferrari or even Porsche 911 (both high quality cars, no doubt, but expensive) when a Nissan GTR R35 performs just as well and costs less. All three will last a lifetime with a bit of care…

Some people have other criteria to buying a car, emotional more often than not. For example, Ferrari's and Porsche's are known to a lot of common folk and associated with rich people, GTR - not so much. Also, different cars have different feel to driving them, different sound isolation, suspensions, seating position and road view, these tiny bits can be evaluated subconsciously even though you're after performance. I…

I thought this too. Motorcycles are probably the most cost effective way to go from 0 - 100km/h below three seconds.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#106

Post by denzil_correa » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:32 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #68

A while back, I stopped buying the highest-priced goods and started doing research instead. What I found what the best things weren't the highest-priced. I also found that I could find the best items for me because what I care about isn't necessary what others care about. Using this, I've managed to buy better shoes, toasters, and even a car than I've ever had before, and at less than I would have spent if I hadn't d…

You're actually agreeing with the author without realizing it. Why? Because you decided to buy X because it was valued at a certain price and you could afford it. You didn't buy a "cheap" (in quality) version of the product (since you did your research). Unknowingly you are agreeing with the author. :-)

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#107

Post by denzil_correa » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:32 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #68

A while back, I stopped buying the highest-priced goods and started doing research instead. What I found what the best things weren't the highest-priced. I also found that I could find the best items for me because what I care about isn't necessary what others care about. Using this, I've managed to buy better shoes, toasters, and even a car than I've ever had before, and at less than I would have spent if I hadn't d…

You're actually agreeing with the author without realizing it. Why? Because you decided to buy X because it was valued at a certain price and you could afford it. You didn't buy a "cheap" (in quality) version of the product (since you did your research). Unknowingly you are agreeing with the author. :-)

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#108

Post by roc » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:34 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #91

roc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are a good example of why "built to last" doesn't make universal sense. We don't make trucks like we did 15 years ago, because we know what happens to the human body inside a rigid metal shell during a collision. We know that we can design engines and transmissions that will keep you on the road better, keep you out of more accidents and at least halve your fuel bill. And these gains will trivially outweigh the…

A good point about reliability not being the only factor in buying a car. I drive a Toyota 4Runner, which has a 4-star safety rating. It's from years before pedestrian safety laws, so the pedestrian safety rating is low, but the passenger safety rating is quite good. 20mpg is still hard to get from a V-6 truck engine these days. The only modern safety features I wish I had are hill start assist and traction/stability…

> "20mpg is still hard to get from a V-6 truck engine these days."

True enough. But 4 cylinder engines are turning out 150hp and 3500 pounds of towing capacity these days. So the V-6, in and of itself, may not be an appropriate requirement.

As to the market: perhaps. I'm not saying it's impossible to find a modern middle-ground. But I don't know how many people even want to lift their hood these days.

This past model year it's already started to become somewhat common for commuter cars to ditch the spare tire. And perhaps more bothersome, it's pretty difficult to find drivers who really care that they're missing.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#109

Post by denzil_correa » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:34 PM UTC

EzGraphs wrote: post #48

denzil_correa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to be fair to the author, he mentions the same > This doesn’t always work. Sometimes a cheaper product is actually better. But consider removing price as the default decision criteria.

The main point - rule of thumb - that can be derived: consider removing price as the default decision criteria Most of the comments here (and parts of the original article) are elaborations on applying this principal. So price is not necessarily correlated with quality, but using price as a default decision criteria results in suboptimal outcomes (stuff that is not really "better" or consumers that are happier or oth…

Once again the author asks you to consider removing the price as a decision criteria. He's still exactly talking about the same thing as you are. :-)

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#110

Post by jaggederest » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 3:36 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #91

roc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are a good example of why "built to last" doesn't make universal sense. We don't make trucks like we did 15 years ago, because we know what happens to the human body inside a rigid metal shell during a collision. We know that we can design engines and transmissions that will keep you on the road better, keep you out of more accidents and at least halve your fuel bill. And these gains will trivially outweigh the…

A good point about reliability not being the only factor in buying a car. I drive a Toyota 4Runner, which has a 4-star safety rating. It's from years before pedestrian safety laws, so the pedestrian safety rating is low, but the passenger safety rating is quite good. 20mpg is still hard to get from a V-6 truck engine these days. The only modern safety features I wish I had are hill start assist and traction/stability…

> But there certainly is a market for a dead-simple yet modernly designed car.

It's a shame that those two things are contradictions in terms, then. Even if you were to keep only the safety features from a modern car, it would still be many times more complex than your 1975 dodge pickup.