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An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

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Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#91
post #5

So cheat to get a job then get fired when they see you are useless? Genius..

Technical interviews are useless and its normal that their victims fight back

If you don't like technical interviews then what the industry needs is proper and formal certification process akin to the medical, legal, and engineering fields. In the absence of some outside resource to validate that a person has the basic fundamental skills, then you have to ask questions to determine if the applicant knows any of those skills.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#92
post #6

Feels like in some sections of the US like big tech, the talent vetting process has evolved into some adversarial battle of attrition where the idea is to grind down the pool of candidates until only a few are left rather than find some potential new colleagues. Tools like this have emerged as a direct response to that process. What a bizarre way to begin a working relationship.

I've recently been studying leetcode (for reasons) and went through an interview process.

It was, by far, the most boring interview I've ever had to participate in. The leetcode problem was easy (detect if two strings are anagrams; solved with O(n) solution in talk about non-functional requirements -> write some API routes -> draw a load balancer (because of course, there's always a load balancer) -> draw a service -> draw Redis/Memcached -> draw a database). It's comically laughable how it's just like a rhythm game at this point.

What I don't understand is why teams don't just "get to the point". A lot of times, the assessment is looking for specific notes. Why not just ask about those notes directly? A friend recently went through an interview where he was docked for not using C# `yield` when implementing an `IEnumerable`. But had the interviewer asked "What is `yield` and why would you use it?", the interviewer would have gained the same exact insight in 15 seconds with one question.

I think what's also striking is how slow orgs are to adapt their interview process to account for AI. There's a distinct lack of focus on code reviews as part of the assessment. If the future of coding is AIs for productivity, then teams should be adding code reviews into their process (check for correctness, check for defects, check for performance, check for security, etc).

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#93
post #88

The long term "solution" here for candidates will devolve to a second device that uses a camera and microphone to monitor the device from which they are being tested and presents feedback on a second monitor visible to the applicant but not interviewer. For interviewers, the solution will be proctored testing centers with metal detectors and all devices required to be in a locker outside the test area. (This is how t…

This whole thing is getting ridiculous and is a symptom of wealth inequality and our cutthroat society that demands we pay for the privilege of being able to work.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#94

How often do doctors have to prove they can still recall every obscure medical fact when changing hospitals? When a lawyer moves to a new firm, do they have to retake the bar or answer weird hypothetical cases all over again? Aren't their credentials, past cases, and reputation usually enough? Why do we in tech keep forcing experienced professionals to jump through these puzzle-like hoops instead of trusting their tr…

Doctors and lawyers are licensed, software engineers are not. If a doctor or lawyer screws up they will often face sanctions and lawsuits, whereas a software engineer can just jump ship to a different company and let their resume do the talking. In general it is way easier to get 3 years of experience as a software engineer than it is to go to law school and pass the bar.

I am sympathetic to the argument that software engineers should be licensed, which would reduce the need for dumb technical interviews. But I imagine HN wouldn't like that very much.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#95
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been lucky to never have to deal with that. Sucks for everyone that has. On the other hand, I personally cannot code properly while someone is conceptually "breathing down my neck". A for loop sure, but I'd probably fail at writing a hash table or whatever despite nearing 10 years of experience on many different projects, including compiler frontends and a simple garbage collector I wrote for the fun of it.

Today, I guarantee you that candidates will eventually take that risk to cheat in the online assessment stage in the hopes of getting an offer from the company and will likely turn into a bad hire. Not hiring them is better than a bad hire. If it were me, I would not use Hackerrank, Leetcode, or other online puzzles sites. Instead it would be just a conversation in to just show me your open source contributions in la…

Not everyone has open source projects to show. Also, for the ones that do, extremely few would be used as dependencies in larger projects, so that requirement is just ridiculous.

Also, how do you even know if it's the candidate that has developed the code? You simply don't know if the candidate copy-pasted the code.

Secondly, just because someone cheated at an extremely difficult Leetcode problem doesn't in any way mean that they can't code on the job. Jobs hardly require such problems.

Instead, ask the candidate to explain specific parts of your code that you show them. It can also be cheated, but it has both a screen and a voice input component, so cheating would take more work.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#96
post #46
post #16

Why bother with this style of interview where the candidate is under extreme time pressure and isn’t allowed to use any of the research tools they would normally use in their job? What is this controlling for? It barely made sense when these were conducted in person, and it’s completely inane over video meeting. Instead of grilling people, talk to them. Give them meaningful take-home exercises that you can discuss to…

I agree but a big problem remains. How do you make it scale for 100k applications?

How many jobs have you got? 1000?

How about you hire the first 1000 people who seem competent, and then tell everyone else you've filled the roles?

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#97
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you want sympathy but it just shows that some people just don't understand the power dynamics of an interview. I believe live coding is a scourge and we should get rid of it altogether. Get a tiny open ended project, which requires more design/architecture skills than actually finishing the solution. You do it at your own time and shouldn't take more than 1-2h. You submit it and provide your mental pro…

The core issue here is the sheer volume of applicants. Microsoft opened 30 new-grad software engineering positions. Care to guess how many applications they got within 24 hours? 1,000? 10,000? Nope. 100,000 applications. In under a single day. With that kind of applicant pool, I’m honestly not sure what the best approach is—even though, in a perfect world, your suggestion would be the more appropriate route. The real…

The problem is attempting to optimize a noisy process. Instinctively people think they need to look at all the applicants.

Start interviewing people, and once you have enough people who pass your bar, you tell the rest tough luck.

Secretary problem.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#98
post #23

Just in case this repo isn't a joke and some job seekers are seriously thinking of this tactic... Companies already know about cheat methods like this and candidates still have to demonstrate skills in-person on a whiteboard in a 2nd round of tech interviews. A high-paying FAANG job isn't going to hire candidates based on just one remote Zoom tech interview. That still may not deter some folks and they'll try to cont…

> A high-paying FAANG job isn't going to hire candidates based on just one remote Zoom tech interview. What do you think they do? One round of interviews was enough for my Google recruiter to congratulate me on getting a job there. Did I get the job? No. But the process didn't include any other interviews. There's only one round.

Pardon me, but I don't understand. Was the recruiter mistaken about you getting the job?

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#99
post #73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employing someone is renting their labor. How do you find an apartment rental in a large city with thousands of options? You can’t expect to visit them all. And you certainly can’t come up with increasingly bizarre torture tests for landlords to pass (“I might rent from you if you can answer enough trick questions about tenant law within 15 minutes”). To find the apartment, you probably sample enough of the options t…

Except landlords have almost all the power, just like the job gatekeepers. A landlord gets to choose who rents their property so they aren’t under any obligation to answer your questions, they’ll just find a renter who doesn’t ask questions. When you have all the power it inevitably gets abused which is exactly what we’ve been seeing in rental with things like real page.

That’s kind of my implicit point. Employers don’t want to think of themselves as renters. It’s offensive to their unquestioned self-image as being the ones who hold the cards and deign to interview candidates.

But if you can give up on those worthless power games, you can have a hiring process that’s better for both parties.

Re: An invisible desktop application that will help you pass technical interviews

#100
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but a big problem remains. How do you make it scale for 100k applications?

How many jobs have you got? 1000? How about you hire the first 1000 people who seem competent, and then tell everyone else you've filled the roles?

If you have literally hundreds of applicants and don’t have a process you are confidant provides a strong scoring function you should just randomly hire 1000.
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