Pay Too Much for everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#81

Post by genwin » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:19 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #63

beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

As an anecdote to add to your great analysis, I know a lot of my engineering coworkers (including me) who refuse to buy new cars. I drive a 15 year old truck not because it's fuel-efficient, not because it's beautiful, not because it has all the features, and certainly not because it needs no maintenance. It's because when it does need maintenance, I can do it and it's relatively cheap and easy. It's the Timex vs poc…

Good advice I got: "A high-tech car means high-tech repair bills". I drive a minivan from the utilitarian days when they still had a spare tire. A cassette deck device that plugs into a modern music player works fine. My external GPS will always be current too.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#82

Post by wickedchicken » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:22 PM UTC

Feeling insecure about your place in life? Worried you're not happy enough, cool enough, or loved enough? You clearly aren't spending enough money. Don't bother creating things or building interpersonal relationships. Spend more time thinking about acquiring physical goods and making sure you're only getting the best.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#83

Post by genwin » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:23 PM UTC

megablast wrote: post #32

beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

Paying too much for something works if you have no idea how to actually judge the quality of the item. I know computers and bikes, and will not pay too much for those thing, because I know the quality and I know the cost. I have no idea about cars, or houses, or shoes, so I have not way of judging the quality of these items.

If you'll ever buy a car or house you should know their quality; you can rely on the judgment of others for that. For cars it's usually easy: Japanese or Hyundai. Car magazines rate their quality. For houses, it's generally ones from 1960 to 1980. An inspector can judge the quality of a house.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#84

Post by aes256 » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:24 PM UTC

itmag wrote: post #36

lsc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh, I think that most of what you are paying for is, well, paying more. I mean, today, the kids are buying $400 jeans that are thick and tough (then they don't wash them, which sounds disgusting, but what do I know?) but, you know, at least they are probably durable. But during the first dot com? the expensive jeans were made of this super thin denim that was then pre-stressed at the factory; So yeah, in '99? if you…

Is it just me, or do jeans seem very cheap in America? In Sweden, a pair of regular Levi's jeans might cost you 1000 SEK, which is about $136. The designer jeans might cost 1500+ SEK.

That's more of a Levi's thing.

In the US they're a fairly low-end brand, whereas in the rest of the world they're marketed as a more upmarket, almost premium brand.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#85

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:25 PM UTC

bobf wrote: post #78

latch wrote: post #14

I don't agree with most of this. The idea that price equals quality has long been used by merchants to extract money from consumers, not extend value. Sure it's true of some products and some companies, but overall I'd argue that at best, more expensive things aren't close to being relatively better - by any meaningful measure. A $300 meal isn't 10x better - in terms of taste (subjective obviously) or nutrition - as…

A $300 meal can be 10x better than a $30 meal. Most $30 meals are fine , but a $300 meal may be the best meal you have ever had.

The best meals I've ever had were generally cooked by me or someone I know personally, and were shared with good friends or family. An outdoor BBQ 20 years ago. Christmas dinners. Camp meals backpacking. Mom's home cooking after workouts as a kid. Picnics out of doors.

I can think of maybe two or three restaurant meals that were memorable. The best of these a long long time ago with a girl I was very fond of, in a small rustic tavern. Expensive? No. But exquisite at the time.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#86

Post by pitt1980 » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

PedroCandeias wrote: post #26

I don't think the Op is getting as much love as he deserves. Many of the intangible pieces that make up the quality of a product or service go out the door when we’re getting a deal. They’re doing a favor and sometimes when we bargain, people resent us. This is absolute gold when it comes to longer business relationships. I have come through to believe that entirely too many fail simply because someone is resentful o…

it cuts both ways, you don't want to get 'sucker' stapped on your forehead early in a business relationship

obviously, good relationships have give a take both ways, a little framing of what you expect early on, can pay alot of dividends over the long run

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#87

Post by genwin » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:31 PM UTC

gmac wrote: post #69

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn. Just because you don't know now, doesn't excuse you from not knowing when you go to make a purchase. There are a number of ways to acquire knowledge out there. Go get it.

To a point. But there aren't enough hours in the day to become an expert in buying everything one has to buy, and in many cases predicting the durability of something is really difficult. I guess this is in large part why brands are so valuable, as they give consumers a seemingly easy quality heuristic.

You can rely on the opinions of experts for many large purchases, like cars. For smaller items it's usually good enough to look for hallmarks of quality; e.g. whether the wood in the furniture is solid.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#88

Post by roc » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:31 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #63

beloch wrote: post #31

The idea in this article is sometimes true, but it completely fails to take into account the relentless march of technology. Some items, such as cell-phones or laptops, will be totally obsolete within 10 years no matter how finely made they are. Other items, such as guitars, will not be obsolete since the technology isn't changing quickly, if at all. There will be new digital guitars with funky synth modes every year…

As an anecdote to add to your great analysis, I know a lot of my engineering coworkers (including me) who refuse to buy new cars. I drive a 15 year old truck not because it's fuel-efficient, not because it's beautiful, not because it has all the features, and certainly not because it needs no maintenance. It's because when it does need maintenance, I can do it and it's relatively cheap and easy. It's the Timex vs poc…

Cars are a good example of why "built to last" doesn't make universal sense.

We don't make trucks like we did 15 years ago, because we know what happens to the human body inside a rigid metal shell during a collision. We know that we can design engines and transmissions that will keep you on the road better, keep you out of more accidents and at least halve your fuel bill. And these gains will trivially outweigh the higher costs for maintenance, repair costs and increased frequency of replacement.

Similarly with major appliances like refrigerators, furnaces and hot water heaters. It's not at all uncommon to see people with older versions of those appliances that are 30+ years old, still tickin and trivial to repair and maintain. But they're so horribly inefficient that even if you replace that classic with a modern model that will fall apart the day after its warranty expires, you can save so much more money in the interim that you'll still be ahead after you replace it.

Now, I'm not arguing that you should go out and buy the latest. Or that aiming for longevity and repairability is never right.

I'm just saying that there are trade-offs when something is "designed to last" and "easy to repair". And, particularly when moving parts and electronics are involved, those trade-offs can cost more in the long run.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#89

Post by lazerwalker » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:36 PM UTC

bobf wrote: post #78

latch wrote: post #14

I don't agree with most of this. The idea that price equals quality has long been used by merchants to extract money from consumers, not extend value. Sure it's true of some products and some companies, but overall I'd argue that at best, more expensive things aren't close to being relatively better - by any meaningful measure. A $300 meal isn't 10x better - in terms of taste (subjective obviously) or nutrition - as…

A $300 meal can be 10x better than a $30 meal. Most $30 meals are fine , but a $300 meal may be the best meal you have ever had.

The key word there is can. A $300 meal may be the best meal you've ever had, but spending $300 on a meal isn't a guarantee that it will be. Conversely, it's also possible that $30 meal could be the best meal you've ever had. Less likely, sure, but possible.

It reminds me of advice I've been given from friends who are really into wine: the difference between a $10 bottle of wine, a $50 bottle of wine, and a $100 bottle of wine isn't that the more expensive ones are better, it's that they're more likely to be good.

Re: Pay Too Much for everything

#90

Post by cschmidt » Thu, Jul 12, 2012, 2:45 PM UTC

lsc wrote: post #15

saturn wrote: post #5

> My favorite pair of jeans gets worn 10 times more often than my other jeans. If I did away with the other jeans, I could afford to buy more of those things I really love. This took me embarrassingly long to realise. Instead of buying clothes because they were pretty nice and on sale, buy only what you absolutely love, and pay full price. Instead of having "favourite underwear", get rid of everything that's not your…

huh. my jeans usually fail through use; they don't usually languish. The thing is? I have some costco brand jeans I bought during the first dot-com that I still wear. they were under $15. Actually, at the same time I bought a bunch of designer jeans. The designer jeans all failed (at least one of them catastrophically... dramatically ripping the crotch wide open as I lifted a server in front of something of a crowd.)…

I don't think anything 'designer' is what the OP was talking about. You're certainly right that designer clothes are not necessarily the best quality, as they are being sold on (at least perceived) exclusivity.

I do wear expensive jeans because they're comfortable and nicely made. I like a German brand called Hiltl:

http://www.hiltl.de/eng/index.php

I typically have about 3 pairs, that I replace when they wear out.

There are other nifty jeans like Hiut:

http://hiutdenim.co.uk/

Generally, the smaller and more craftsman-like the company the better. I think that agrees very well with the OP.