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Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

cnn.com

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Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#211

Post by Rendello »

makeitdouble wrote: post #183
chachacharge wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of doubt this will be adopted practically in Japan. The old people get time off and leave work early in Japan by privilege and the young break themselves and any rule they need to permit it. The young would even lie about taking time off to make the boss look good, even taking less pay to sell the lie. Who can have kids when you already have to change everyone's diaper.

That was largely true 10 to 20 years ago and is still true in some pockets of society. The younger have been giving the middle finger to these kind of companies for a while now. Either literally, by proxy, or going elsewhere and/or quit the whole corporate culture altogether and doing "shit" jobs with more flexibility instead (they feel screwed either way, at least they'll do it on their own term) This 4 days week me…

I have a friend, Mai (let's say), who's from Japan (and is as terrified as I am at the country's work culture). She texted her high school friend who's still there and working in an office, day-in and day-out, and Mai asked her if she's hanging out or talking to any of her old friends. The friend said "You're my friend Mai :) I only talk with you".

She only sends her a text on Christmas and her birthday, that's the extent of their yearly interaction!

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#212

Post by brendoelfrendo »

ipaddr wrote: post #162
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You almost had a coherent point until the last sentence. I'll take my social bonds without the side-order of dogma, thanks.

What bonds people in the past is religious dogma. We removed it and we wonder why our social bonds are so weak. I'm not suggesting we go back but we have nothing to replace it. The one thing a church did was welcome in everyone. We don't have places like that anymore.

I guess I have to tell my local card shop to stop welcoming everyone on Commander night, because you're only allowed to do that if you're a church.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#213

Post by imetatroll »

orangecat wrote: post #109
reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I entirely agree. And when you lather on the tidal wave of endless "entertainment" and options available to most people they end up framing everything in their minds as "having fun" vs "having kids". I also know many women who say they don't want to "do that to their bodies" so ... where is this all going.

And honestly I agree with the "if you are single you should pay more taxes" as a motivator to either get you to have your own kids or to simply ease the burden of those who are actually making humanity move forward but as a parent I am a bit biased here. It should be a significant amount.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#214

Post by imetatroll »

halgir wrote: post #168
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll gladly volunteer to be the first to say "Fuck those societal expectations, that's insane." You don't owe your children much more than food, love and a roof over their head. Sure, you might want to give them the world, but don't listen to anyone telling you that's the expectation - that's a fast track to resentment.

On the contrary, from a moral standpoint you owe your children everything. You forced them into existence without their consent. Though I agree that doesn't have to mean conforming to societal expectations of ivy league schools and so forth. Food, love and a roof over your head goes a long way.

I cannot put my finger on why I dislike this comment so deeply but I am a parent and I suspect you are not.

To be specific I dislike your framing and use of the word "forced". I do agree though that parents should deeply love and support their kids which is what it sounds like you are trying to say. And in turn, your kids should do the same despite "generational differences".

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#215

Post by imetatroll »

nemo44x wrote: post #141
orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I enjoyed the DINK life for some time but eventually we decided to start a family and my only regret in life is we didn't start it sooner and have more kids. In the end all the fancy restaurants, nights out, fancy vacations with first class airfare, etc were nice in some ways but pretty vapid and unimportant when looking back. I won't value those years very much compared to the years with children in the house. The e…

I think that any loving, financial well couple would discover the same, but all I hear from younger people is excuses as to why kids are a burden. It drives me a bit crazy.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#216

Post by ipaddr »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #212
ipaddr wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bonds people in the past is religious dogma. We removed it and we wonder why our social bonds are so weak. I'm not suggesting we go back but we have nothing to replace it. The one thing a church did was welcome in everyone. We don't have places like that anymore.

I guess I have to tell my local card shop to stop welcoming everyone on Commander night, because you're only allowed to do that if you're a church.

Welcoming people with money who buy cards as a promotion to sell goods.

It's not a place to hold a wedding or funeral. You can't go inside and sit down without someone trying to sell you something.

Some form of community can happen at a card shop. I use to hang around one when a was younger. Also got kicked out every now and then for hanging out too much.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#217

Post by brendoelfrendo »

ipaddr wrote: post #216
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I have to tell my local card shop to stop welcoming everyone on Commander night, because you're only allowed to do that if you're a church.

Welcoming people with money who buy cards as a promotion to sell goods. It's not a place to hold a wedding or funeral. You can't go inside and sit down without someone trying to sell you something. Some form of community can happen at a card shop. I use to hang around one when a was younger. Also got kicked out every now and then for hanging out too much.

I got married in a public park. It was free and everyone can convene there. What it doesn't do is insulate you from people you may find disagreeable or distasteful, which a church does.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#218

Post by brendoelfrendo »

FredPret wrote: post #171
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You almost had a coherent point until the last sentence. I'll take my social bonds without the side-order of dogma, thanks.

ipaddr has a point. The average person (non-scientist, non-technical) has replaced belief in the supernatural and the church with belief in science and the institutions of the state, and though there have been major improvements, we haven't completely refactored the old yet. Community and meaning is major functionality that we have yet to figure out anew.

I mean, this is the concept of the "third space." They have existed throughout history and while churches are certainly one example, they are not the only example. A church (or temple or mosque or whatever) fills a certain community role as a gathering space for religious worship, but it's not the only place where you can meet and talk to people.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#219

Post by bamboozled »

orangecat wrote: post #109
reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

Many young people I know see nothing being done about climate change and make their choice right there. These are also smart, educated well-off types. The level of suffering we can expect isn't something they want to introduce children into.

I find it surprising this is somehow difficult for governments to grok.

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