Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#141

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:53 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #109

reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I enjoyed the DINK life for some time but eventually we decided to start a family and my only regret in life is we didn't start it sooner and have more kids. In the end all the fancy restaurants, nights out, fancy vacations with first class airfare, etc were nice in some ways but pretty vapid and unimportant when looking back. I won't value those years very much compared to the years with children in the house. The energy kids bring into a home and the meaningfulness of their existence is just incomparable in my experience.

But I get it, and the idea of kids was scary at one time, but it turns out they're pretty easy all things considered. Lots of talk of "sacrifice" between friends back then but as it turns out you're trading something of little value for something of immense value. But to each their own!

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#142

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:56 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #109

reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

Excellent comment. All the evidences suggests to me that removing Social Security/Medicare and other wealth transfers from young to old are actually the only thing that might incentivize sufficient people to have sufficient kids to meet replacement TFR AND raise the kids into the type of adults you want.

The reasoning behind this is even with the best quality of life, many women will have 2 children, but insufficient women will have 3 or more children such that it offsets the number of women who have 0 or 1 child.

Those with zero children really drag the average down, and if it is because partnering with a certain portion of the population is simply not worth it, then government efforts on improving quality of life via work and benefit policies are not going to bump TFR to replacement rate.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#143

Post by MBCook » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:56 PM UTC

WillyWonkaJr wrote: post #56

MBCook wrote: post #3

I wish these stories would say if the hours are changing or not. 32 hours, 4 days a week seems better to me. But if all you do is take 40 hours and make it 10 hour days I’m not that much happier.

100% -- We've been promised more free time due to AI. Probably better to cash in now before this promise is rescinded.

We were with mechanical automation too. And computers. And every other advance.

Things improve, jobs take less time to do, so they give us more. But it’s the same number of hours so pay doesn’t go up.

We all get screwed.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#144

Post by icandoit » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:57 PM UTC

for parents only?

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#145

Post by coliveira » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:58 PM UTC

l33tbro wrote: post #106

wubrr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the subordinates have to lie about taking time off, and intentionally accept lower pay for the benefit of their superiors - then no, it's definitely not reciprocated. I'd argue the subordinates are straight up being abused in this case.

I'm not saying you are wrong here, but I think it is important to ground all of these old:young dynamics in culture. 'Subordinate', to me, is a very western lens and looks past the crucial point that the Japanese view power structures with far more optimism than we do. Japan clearly has its own problems, but honour and duty play a significant part in their culture and, admirably, contributes to the creation of a high…

Arguably, the Japanese view a society that takes care of the elderly with respect as a benefit to themselves. In the other hand, it is a characteristic of Western society to see every moment as an opportunity to make immediate profits, even at the expense of their own future.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#146

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 8:58 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #109

reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

[deleted]

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#147

Post by hanslovsky » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #141

orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

I enjoyed the DINK life for some time but eventually we decided to start a family and my only regret in life is we didn't start it sooner and have more kids. In the end all the fancy restaurants, nights out, fancy vacations with first class airfare, etc were nice in some ways but pretty vapid and unimportant when looking back. I won't value those years very much compared to the years with children in the house. The e…

I have the sentiment. would have loved to have kids earlier, but I also was not in the position at an earlier age, relationship wise. Growing up in Germany, having kids in your 20s was almost frowned upon. what a terrible societal development!

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#148

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 9:05 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #139

orangecat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually that life is too good for childless people, especially when they're wealthier. Take a DINK couple with high paying jobs, say an engineer and an attorney. Without kids they can have a nice house or condo, regularly take great vacations, and still be saving enough to have the option of retiring in their 40s or 50s. But with kids, that mostly goes out the window. The societal expectation is that you should…

The parents I've seen seem to spend every waking second doting on their children for at least a decade, which seems strange to me. This hovering "what can I do to satisfy your desires" literally just constantly (I've also seen people doing this with their dogs). Maybe I'm missing something or my sample size is skewed. The people I've seen doing this are also just exhausted, as they've said directly. It comes down to.…

>The parents I've seen seem to spend every waking second doting on their children for at least a decade, which seems strange to me. This hovering "what can I do to satisfy your desires" literally just constantly

While some of it may be overbearing parenting due to wanting kids to compete or train for the future, there is also the fact that kids cannot be left alone, and there is no extended family supervision for them, and you are told you cannot let your kids sit in front of a screen all day.

There’s no neighborhood chain of kids ranging from high school to toddler playing with each other, there is no outside time without adult supervision, an adult who is legally liable.

And of course, cars. The environment is optimized for cars, not kids, so kids either sit inside alone or with 1 sibling or they need to be supervised.

Not applicable to every single family, but many.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#149

Post by plantwallshoe » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

nkzd wrote: post #45

reverendsteveii wrote: post #29

I feel like it's been a long time fretting over falling birth rates and this is the first time I've seen anyone float the idea that making life better for people might make them a bit more inclined to make more people.

I am not sure about this one. In the past, quality of life was terrible compared to modern life but fertility was not an issue.

Kids used to be seen as a way to increase quality of life. They were free labor and a retirement plan all rolled into one.

They still are seen as a way to increase quality of life but in a more vibey sort of way.

Re: Tokyo is set to introduce a four-day workweek for government employees

#150

Post by Barrin92 » Fri, Dec 06, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #61

Barrin92 wrote: post #27

>Many sociologists attribute the ever-plunging birth rates to Japan’s unforgiving work culture and rising costs of living. It still seems like an incredibly odd argument to me given that the birth rate is only marginally lower than in the most generous, least working European nations. Hungary spent 5%(!) of its GDP on direct family support and it did very little (raised the birth rate by 0.15 give or take). I wonder…

> adjust economic policies accordingly What do you have in mind? My understanding is that this is not something there is much of an economic solution for short of canceling benefits (pensions / medical care)

Pension reform is unpopular but will need to happen in developed economies at some point or otherwise the youth that remains will completely crash out. One positive of the population pyramid is that the small next generations stand to inherit quite a lot softening it to some extent. But it's necessary.

Not enough discussed is also how much potential for labour saving tech there is. The most 20 common jobs almost haven't changed in decades. Retail, transport, clerks, back office, admin, even without magic "AI" solutions, if we wanted to we could design work around drastically cutting labour already. It's actually one benefit of the demographics, a lot of automation isn't happening because manual labour is cheap in a lot of places, so there's potential for growth even.